Full tear down and Rebuild of a 10EE Round Dial - Page 8
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  1. #141
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    I always used some fast drying spray can lacquer , (usually black) for a sanding guide coat. Really good for those large flat areas.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yan Wo View Post
    I think some of the dust is drifting down here to Salt Lake.
    Ha! Its been such a cold and wet fall up here, I dont think the dust is making it much past the garage door!

    Quote Originally Posted by daryl bane View Post
    I always used some fast drying spray can lacquer , (usually black) for a sanding guide coat. Really good for those large flat areas.
    I think just about anything would work for the guide coat. I used the two-part epoxy primer as I had a bunch on hand, and I had sanded a bunch back to bare metal, so wanted to use it as a adhesion layer for the high builder primer.

    I sanded the epoxy guide coat with 180 this am. I was quite surprised that I only had a couple of low spots. There are a few high-spots that I dont think will be too noticeable, and the only way to have gotten rid of them, would have been to be pretty aggressive with a grinder. At the end of the day, It turned out 10X better than it did when it left the factory, so I am happy with it.
    sandedguidecoat.jpg
    I did a quick fill, and then sanded everything at 220 and then to 280. I'm at the point, that its going to be diminishing returns on the time invest to take the body work much further. It's also one of those things that at the end of the day, chances are I will be the only that knows some of the imperfections are there.

    After wiping it all down with a tack cloth, I then wiped it all down again with wax and oil remover to chemically clean it.

    It was then time to spray the 2K high build primer.
    highbuildprimer1.jpg
    highbuildprimer2.jpg
    Thats where everything started to go wrong. As soon as I started to spay it, I felt like the gun was having a really hard time to push the material through. The primer came out of the gun super thick, and while it eventually covered everything evenly. It looks and fills like 80 grit sand paper. I should have stopped there, but instead pressed on.
    highbuildprimer3.jpg
    I had read the data sheet last night. This afternoon, I was in a bit of a hurry to get it sprayed so I could take my 4 year old on a bike ride. So just mixed it 4:1 with the activator as the label stated. I totally forgot that the Tech Sheet for it called for a 4:1:1 ratio with reducer. No wonder it came out so damn thick. I guess that will be a good learning mistake to remember to RTFM (Read The Fu(King Manual) or in this case tech sheet again before mixing.

    It is also borderline with the ambient temps this week being only a high fo 50. So once I got done spraying, I let it off gas for 45 minutes to get most of the fumes out. I then closed the garage door, cranked the heater and took the kid for a much needed father son bike session.

    My plan of attack tommrow is to see how the primer sands out. Hopefully, I can get it to nicely sand down to 400, and then hit it with the sealer coat tomorrow afternoon. I have a feeling I am going to have to do another primer coat tomorrow after sanding.


  4. #143
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    One product that I found recently that works well for these rough castings is "Slick-Sand by Evercoat. Shoot a base of epoxy primer (DP-40 or similar) over the clean bare metal. Work the filler(bondo) over that, I always put the filler over the primer, too many old repairs I have seen and bad corrosion under the bondo on bare steel. In almost 40 yrs , have never had my filler lift over the epoxy primer. Then shoot a coat or more of Slick-sand over that, till I get it where I want it, then shoot a sealer coat (usually just the DP-40) again, then the color. base or topcoat. I like the black lacquer guide coat cause it dries almost immediately (like seconds), easy to sand off, and doesn't clog my sandpaper.

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  6. #144
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    Quote Originally Posted by daryl bane View Post
    One product that I found recently that works well for these rough castings is "Slick-Sand by Evercoat. Shoot a base of epoxy primer (DP-40 or similar) over the clean bare metal. Work the filler(bondo) over that, I always put the filler over the primer, too many old repairs I have seen and bad corrosion under the bondo on bare steel. In almost 40 yrs , have never had my filler lift over the epoxy primer. Then shoot a coat or more of Slick-sand over that, till I get it where I want it, then shoot a sealer coat (usually just the DP-40) again, then the color. base or topcoat. I like the black lacquer guide coat cause it dries almost immediately (like seconds), easy to sand off, and doesn't clog my sandpaper.
    Daryl is 100% +++
    After your primer and you see places that you still want filled Evercoat makes a filler that is a thinned down version of bondo. There are several types. It sands easy and feathers edges nice.
    This is my favorite
    Evercoat Metal Glaze Finishing Putty Pump 416 | eBay

    It uses a hardener just like bondo. Be sure and mix enough hardener.
    Ask Cal about that.

    Edit
    I see daryl already recommended slick sand. Good s it .
    I need read the whole posts better
    Evercoat 709 Slick Sand Polyester Primer Surfacer Gray (Gallon) Evercoat 709 | eBay

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  8. #145
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    Quote Originally Posted by daryl bane View Post
    One product that I found recently that works well for these rough castings is "Slick-Sand by Evercoat. Shoot a base of epoxy primer (DP-40 or similar) over the clean bare metal. Work the filler(bondo) over that, I always put the filler over the primer, too many old repairs I have seen and bad corrosion under the bondo on bare steel. In almost 40 yrs , have never had my filler lift over the epoxy primer. Then shoot a coat or more of Slick-sand over that, till I get it where I want it, then shoot a sealer coat (usually just the DP-40) again, then the color. base or topcoat. I like the black lacquer guide coat cause it dries almost immediately (like seconds), easy to sand off, and doesn't clog my sandpaper.
    Quote Originally Posted by mllud22 View Post
    Daryl is 100% +++
    After your primer and you see places that you still want filled Evercoat makes a filler that is a thinned down version of bondo. There are several types. It sands easy and feathers edges nice.
    This is my favorite
    Evercoat Metal Glaze Finishing Putty Pump 416 | eBay

    It uses a hardener just like bondo. Be sure and mix enough hardener.
    Ask Cal about that.

    Edit
    I see daryl already recommended slick sand. Good s it .
    I need read the whole posts better
    Evercoat 709 Slick Sand Polyester Primer Surfacer Gray (Gallon) Evercoat 709 | eBay
    I really wish I would have known about the slick sand ahead of time. Seems like it would have been way easier than making a skim coat from Bondo. When filling the deep areas, I left the Bondo as is and mixed it up normally. I found that its consistency was too thick for the skim coat, so I diluted it by adding additional fiberglass resin to it. That made it way easier to smear over and fill in all of the smaller low areas in the casting. A spray product would have been even nicer.

    Back in plastics school, we had to do a lab early on, where we mixed up a whole bunch of different resin types with various rations of catalyst. When some didnt Gell at all, some never hardened. Some over hardend and became brittle and some even caught on fire. It was a great way to drive home the fact that proper mix ratios are important!

  9. #146
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    I did my final nick and scratch filling with 3M Bondo 907 Glazing and Spot Putty. It's like thick paint and spreads easily. Drys in 30 min, so you can do a lot of fill+sand cycles in an afternoon. It comes in a tube, ready to use, no mixing. Works really well!

    Cal

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  11. #147
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cal Haines View Post
    I did my final nick and scratch filling with 3M Bondo 907 Glazing and Spot Putty. It's like thick paint and spreads easily. Drys in 30 min, so you can do a lot of fill+sand cycles in an afternoon. It comes in a tube, ready to use, no mixing. Works really well!

    Cal
    That is good also. I believe it is basically a primer in paste form. It has a fasr evaporating solvent. It's been around in red and gray longer than other glazes.
    Not to thick or it will shrink and crack.
    It's made for what Cal described filling.

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  13. #148
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    Quote Originally Posted by mllud22 View Post
    That is good also. I believe it is basically a primer in paste form. It has a fasr evaporating solvent. It's been around in red and gray longer than other glazes.
    Not to thick or it will shrink and crack.
    It's made for what Cal described filling.
    Does the 3M Glazing and Spot Putty need to go over a primer, and, if so, what is recommended?

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    Quote Originally Posted by rklopp View Post
    Does the 3M Glazing and Spot Putty need to go over a primer, and, if so, what is recommended?
    Yes it should go over a primer. or paint. It was used in the 1970's and 80's when acrylic enamel was a popular auto paint .
    Lacquer primer was the most used primer back then so lacquer primer is ok.

    Its good over epoxy primer.

    That 3m glazing has a lacquer based solvent that will lift oil base paints. There is very little solvent in the glazing but oil base cures slow even though it feels dry its still soft.

    I have used it to fill very small defects on oil base paints that I use with a hardener. I always use a hardener in oil base.
    You can sand it in two days and it is hard and sands like a acrylic enamel.

    Epoxy primer ok
    Lacquer primer ok
    Use care around oil base unless a hardener is used in the paint

    It will shrink and crack if put on too thick. Its for scratches and chips.
    Last edited by mllud22; 10-20-2021 at 09:27 PM.

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    I got that rough coat of high build primer sanded down. I then sprayed two more wet coats of it properly reduced. That turned out way better! After letting it bake in the garage for 4 hours with the heat cranked, I then used a sanding block and hand sanded it first at 320 then at 400.

    The high build primer seemed to do a great job of making sure even the small areas that where a bit high / low are now totally even. Hand blocking it, was a good choice as it allowed me to see exactly what areas needed more sanding to be smooth and totally flush. Although I am sure the gloss clear coat will bring out more imperfections that I knew where there... so hopefully none of them are too major. I left the sump area a bit rough as you will never see it in daily use.
    highbuilprimercoat3finalsand1.jpg
    highbuilprimercoat3finalsand2.jpg
    highbuilprimercoat3finalsand3.jpg
    I cleaned up my mess from sanding, blew it off numerous times with compressed air, then vacuumed everything.

    I then wiped it all down with tack cloths until the cloths stayed clean.

    In the am, I will do one more wipe down with the tack cloths and then chemically clean it with the Lumabase wax and grease remover.

    My goal tomorrow is to spray the Sealer coat. I am a bit unsure what to do after that. The TDS for it states you can either paint directly on it within 12 hours, or let it cure overnight then sand it to 1200 before painting. I'm guessing that will depend on if there is any issues with the Sealer coat application. If anyone has any feedback or advice with the sealer coat step, I'm all ears.

    If I dont let the sealer coat sit overnight and then sand, I will apply the color coat and the clear coats all tomorrow.

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  18. #151
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    Quote Originally Posted by GrantGunderson View Post
    I got that rough coat of high build primer sanded down. I then sprayed two more wet coats of it properly reduced. That turned out way better! After letting it bake in the garage for 4 hours with the heat cranked, I then used a sanding block and hand sanded it first at 320 then at 400.

    The high build primer seemed to do a great job of making sure even the small areas that where a bit high / low are now totally even. Hand blocking it, was a good choice as it allowed me to see exactly what areas needed more sanding to be smooth and totally flush. Although I am sure the gloss clear coat will bring out more imperfections that I knew where there... so hopefully none of them are too major. I left the sump area a bit rough as you will never see it in daily use.
    highbuilprimercoat3finalsand1.jpg
    highbuilprimercoat3finalsand2.jpg
    highbuilprimercoat3finalsand3.jpg
    I cleaned up my mess from sanding, blew it off numerous times with compressed air, then vacuumed everything.

    I then wiped it all down with tack cloths until the cloths stayed clean.

    In the am, I will do one more wipe down with the tack cloths and then chemically clean it with the Lumabase wax and grease remover.

    My goal tomorrow is to spray the Sealer coat. I am a bit unsure what to do after that. The TDS for it states you can either paint directly on it within 12 hours, or let it cure overnight then sand it to 1200 before painting. I'm guessing that will depend on if there is any issues with the Sealer coat application. If anyone has any feedback or advice with the sealer coat step, I'm all ears.

    If I don't let the sealer coat sit overnight and then sand, I will apply the color coat and the clear coats all tomorrow.
    My outlook on spraying the sealer and when too follow with color would be to follow directly with paint if it the sealer goes on good . If you have good light and can do a good inspection of the sealer and are satisfied. Paint !
    Adding another sanding process of sanding the sealer the next day with 1200 will not really make it smoother. That 12 hour sanding is for paint adhesion because the sealer is cured by then and they want sanding scratches to assure paint will stick.

    I have painted more cars and tractors than machinery but its all the same. Before poly's and seal coats were used I use to like to do my last prime coat and follow right up with paint.

    By the time you apply the sealer and look it over and mix paint your sealer will be tacked and ready for paint.
    What better surface for paint to stick could you have than a tacky sub coat. Have your paint pre stirred ready too add the hardener and reducer. That's my opinion.


    It looks great

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  20. #152
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    My plan this am was to get at least the Sealer coat done. I got everything setup to paint and the castings chemically cleaned with the wax and oil remover. I got the sealer mixed and ready to go.
    sealer.jpg
    The sealer gets mixed 4:1:1 with activator and reducer.

    Thats when I noticed a ton of air was leaking out of the inline filter at the gun. Shit. Off to Lowes for a replacement. Luckily they had them in stock.
    inlineh2ofilter.jpg
    Thankfully that only took 30 minutes. So I then sprayed the casting and the bed with the sealer.sealercoatdone.jpg
    At this point I had a choice to make. Let it set and sand it again in the am, or complete the entire color and top coats in one go. The sealer coat looked good so I went for it.

    I applied 3 coats of color, followed by one wet coat of color to hopefully get the metal flakes to stand up a bit. I ended up going with Blue Electrico. This come form the paint shop premixed with the reducer so its ready to spray.
    basecoat.jpg
    Its the same paint I used on my Vidmar cabinets and I really liked how it turned out on them.

    I then applied 4 coats of the 2K polyurethane top coat. The stuff gets mixed 1:1 with the activator.
    4kpolytopcoat.jpg

    It all went really smooth other than one fuck up. I got a bit greedy and though that I had given the bed enough time to fully flash. I then rolled it over to paint the bottom and sides of it. When I did that I had to lift and pivot the tail end. I completely had a brain fart and grabbed it between the ways right where I had just put my clear down and realized it was way to wet! So once it fully cures, I'll have to sand down and reduce the area between the ways. I should have just wanted to do that last in the first place.

    The ambient temp today was only 60 degrees. All of the flags times are based on 75 degrees, so I more or less need to double the flash and cure times of the paint. Once it had off gassed for 2.5 hours, I pulled my make shift paint booth down. I then closed the garage door and cranked the heat to get it to cure faster. It should be ok to lightly handle by the am, but won't fully cure for a few more weeks, so I won't be able to get the bed back on the lathe for at least that long.


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    Here is a few shots in its new color.
    painted1.jpg
    painted2.jpg
    painted3.jpg
    painted4.jpg
    I'm really glad that part of the project is mostly done now. Once the top coat has had a chance to set up, I'll sand it with 1000 grit to knock down any dust nibs, etc that formed. I dont think I had too many of them, which is good considering I was painting in the same area I had just sanded it. After thats done, It will have to sit for 1-2 weeks before I finish sand it to 5000 and then do the finally buffing.

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    Since our forecasted rain for today never materialized, I then went to work on the DC Exciter.
    exciter1.jpg
    First step is the remote grease line for the rear bearing needs to be removed. It has a bracket and one screw that hold it on. It then just unscrews. It was only on snug. The grease in it was fully solidified, so it was pretty much useless as is.
    excitergreaseline.jpg
    I then pulled off the end bearing cover. Its just held on by 4 screws.
    exciterbearingcap1.jpg
    And the grease in the bearing is pretty solidified. As is the grease in its cap.
    exciterbearingcap2.jpg
    I bet they haven't seen any service in decades. The cotter pin in the castle nut then gets removed.
    excitercastlenut.jpg
    The castle nut was just a bit more than hand snug. So no major torque on it, just enough to preload the bearings a bit.

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    Before we remove the bell housing ends, its important to note there is allignment marks for both ends and the casting. This is critical so that the field is in the proper orientation when reassembled. The shaft end has two lines that line up and the other end has 2 dots on the main housing that line up with a single dot on the bell housing. NOTE: those two large bolts hold the fields in place.
    exciteraligmnentmarks.jpg
    Next, the sheave gets removed from the shaft end. Its just held on by a set screw that puts pressure on to the key way.
    excitersheave.jpg
    excitersheave2.jpg
    It is stamped Browning Maysville on the inner side and AK32 on the outside.

    Its also worth noting that they drilled the sheave.
    excitersheave3.jpg
    I googled it, and turns out they are still in business, and you can even order a new one if needed for $36.69
    https://www.motionindustries.com/products/sku/00733563

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    The bearing cap on the shaft side then comes off next.
    excitershaftbearingcap.jpg
    The grease in there was only slightly better than the other side.
    Before the shaft end bell housing gets removed, the wires for the brushes need to get removed. Since there was no room in there to get a heat shrink label on them, I used color zip ties to mark each side.
    exciterbrushwires1.jpgexciter_brushwires2.jpg
    I then used a long brass drift to tap the bell end housing off.
    exciterbeelremoveal.jpg
    On the opposite end, I found a screwdriver sized slot, and then inserted a screwdriver and used that to tap that end off.
    exciterapart.jpg

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    The fields are filthy!
    exciterfields.jpg
    The rotor core is also dirty, but looks to be in pretty good shape otherwise.
    exciterrotor.jpg
    Notice the lump of weight that was added to balance it. This was a good learning moment for my son, I dragged him outside and showed him all of the parts to the motor. He was really exited to get to spin the core.

    I then used my arbor press to press the rotor core out of the end bell housing.
    excitertorrotorbell.jpg
    Next the brush holder gets removed from the shaft end bell housing. Its important to note the side with the red zip ties goes near the grease port so that I can keep them the same when reinstalling. Also the brush housing has a small crack right through the dog point setscrew hole on this side. I dont think it will have any major impact on its function.
    exciterbrushholderremoval.jpg
    The dog point setscrew on the other side was really stuck. I ended up using a ratchet on the end of my wear screw driver to get it loose.
    exciterbrushholderremoval2.jpg

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    Here is what the brush holder looks like.
    exciterbrushholder.jpg
    I then used a bearing drift in my arbor press to press the bearings out of the bell end housings.
    exciterbearingremoval.jpg
    The bearings are SKF 6204 Z. Turns out new sealed ones are only $18 a pop, so I think I'll just replace the factory ones with sealed versions on each end and ditch the grease injection system unless you guys have a good reason for keeping it factory.

    Underneath the bearings on each end is a flat retaining ring with a felt wiper under it.
    exciterfeltwiper1.jpgexciterfeltwiper2.jpg
    I can oder new felt and cut it to fit for a replacement, or I can mostly likely just ditch the felt all together if I replace the bearings with the newer sealed variety. Thoughts?

    Lastly, I removed the belt tension bolt from the bell end using an alignment pin.
    exciterbeltadjusmtentbolt1.jpg
    It's worth noting that it is reverse threaded.

    I'll work on cleaning everything up tomorrow once the garage has less paint fumes in it.

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    All of this is VERY interesting, and I like the format.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yan Wo View Post
    All of this is VERY interesting, and I like the format.
    Thanks. I hope others find it usefull.

    Peeling the tape today felt a bit like a kid at Christmas.
    paintedtapepulled1.jpgpaintedtapepulled2.jpg

    Looking it over, there is only minimal orange peel and very few dust nibs. So I think I am going to let it fully cure before I attempt to tackle buffing those. I also had a hand full of spots where the yellow 3M automotive painters tape, lifted the grey interior paint. Next time I am using that paint, I will use a detail brush and touch those areas up. Otherwise, this maybe one of the best paint jobs I have been able to accomplish so far. All of the time spent on the various stages of prep really paid off!

    Its really tempting to start to reassemble some of it. However, that has to wait at least two weeks for the poly to fully cure and harden. Its too easy to damaged until that occurs. Plus I have plenty of other projects for it to work on in the time being.
    Last edited by GrantGunderson; 10-23-2021 at 02:57 AM.

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