Full tear down and Rebuild of a 10EE Round Dial - Page 9
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  1. #161
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    Quote Originally Posted by GrantGunderson View Post
    Here is what the brush holder looks like.
    Attachment 332752
    I then used a bearing drift in my arbor press to press the bearings out of the bell end housings.
    Attachment 332753
    The bearings are SKF 6204 Z. Turns out new sealed ones are only $18 a pop, so I think I'll just replace the factory ones with sealed versions on each end and ditch the grease injection system unless you guys have a good reason for keeping it factory.

    Underneath the bearings on each end is a flat retaining ring with a felt wiper under it.
    Attachment 332754Attachment 332755
    I can oder new felt and cut it to fit for a replacement, or I can mostly likely just ditch the felt all together if I replace the bearings with the newer sealed variety. Thoughts?

    Lastly, I removed the belt tension bolt from the bell end using an alignment pin.
    Attachment 332756
    It's worth noting that it is reverse threaded.

    I'll work on cleaning everything up tomorrow once the garage has less paint fumes in it.
    Im not an expert on bearings but I always try to replace with what was there. A lot of those less expensive bearings have fewer bearings within the race.
    I have had pretty good luck finding new old stock bearings on ebay. If you cant find the match for the original do some research on motor bearings.
    You can pop the seal off of one side of a sealed bearing to face the grease fitting if your motor has grease fittings
    I'm not a fan of sealed bearings in motors and gearboxes.
    Think about how much damage a bearing failure can do to a motor.

    I popped the seal off of a set of bearings that I matched by diameters and compared them too the old bearing and discovered fewer bearings/balls and the grease in the sealed bearing was minimal. I threw them away and ordered the correct bearings
    Not a place to cut corners

    It's looking good

    Edit
    Forgot to add that the bearings I threw away felt loose. Not good quality
    Last edited by mllud22; 10-22-2021 at 06:09 PM.

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  3. #162
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    Damn. What a great job. Downside is now I want to do the same. Unfortunately I have a 4R100 transmission to rebuild before doing anything to my 10EE.

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  5. #163
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    Quote Originally Posted by mllud22 View Post
    Im not an expert on bearings but I always try to replace with what was there. A lot of those less expensive bearings have fewer bearings within the race.
    I have had pretty good luck finding new old stock bearings on ebay. If you cant find the match for the original do some research on motor bearings.
    You can pop the seal off of one side of a sealed bearing to face the grease fitting if your motor has grease fittings
    I'm not a fan of sealed bearings in motors and gearboxes.
    Think about how much damage a bearing failure can do to a motor.

    I popped the seal off of a set of bearings that I matched by diameters and compared them too the old bearing and discovered fewer bearings/balls and the grease in the sealed bearing was minimal. I threw them away and ordered the correct bearings
    Not a place to cut corners

    It's looking good

    Edit
    Forgot to add that the bearings I threw away felt loose. Not good quality
    Thanks. I have pretty much decided to go with newer sealed bearings. I tried to match all of the specs other then adding shields. So hopefully the Timken ones I ordered will be of good quality. More on that reasoning to come in this post.

    Quote Originally Posted by TBJK View Post
    Damn. What a great job. Downside is now I want to do the same. Unfortunately I have a 4R100 transmission to rebuild before doing anything to my 10EE.
    Thanks. Its a bit of a labor of love, but a lot of my upcoming projects dictate that the lathe be up and running. So hoping I can have it done by spring / early summer.

    Back to the Exciter. The field windings are held in by two bolts on each side. The field winding that is on the same side as the mounting ears is stamped 7763. Note the black electrical tape on the wires... thats a red flag to me and we will be addressing it.
    exciterfieldremoval1.jpg
    It is also worth noting that the 7763 winding side also uses shorter bolts. I'll need to pay attention to that when I reasemble.
    exciterfieldremoval2.jpg
    This is how the field windings look once the case is slid off of them.
    exciterfieldremova3.jpg
    When I removed the electrical tape, I found a wire that appeared intact, but the insulation had been damaged.
    exciterwiredamage.jpg
    We are going to take care of those sections properly. If you recall, I previously labeled the wires and the brushes using collared zip ties.

    First step is to do something a bit more permenit with the brushes, to help the next guy out that needs to work in it. Especially since chances are that will be me or my son. I replaced the colored zip ties, with color coded heat shrink on the springs for each brush.
    exciterbrusholder.jpg
    It also just so happens the wire for the yellow side connects directly to E2 on the Generator panel, so I label the brush with it as well using a carbide scribe.

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    I then replaced the E2 wire entirely with new 12AWG machine tool wire. I used a marine grade solder filled crimp connection on the end, and the added yellow heat shrink and heat shrink label. So no confusing the wires going forward. I then cleaned everything throughly with electrical cleaner, including the remaining wires. The wire going to the other brush, connect directly to the field. I did not want to add a wire splice, so I covered the entire length of the wire in blue heat shrink so its color coded to its brush. The heat shrink also serves as new insulation sheathing over the original insulation. I then covered the remains wires all in black heat shrink.
    exciterfeildwirefixed.jpg
    The exciter case is now ready for new paint. Once I get it painted and the new bearings arrive, it will be ready to get reassembled.

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    TheDC Generator is up next. It is absolutely filthy. Like the rest of the internals from the lathe, it looks like a grease filled bomb had exploded.
    generatordirty.jpggeneratordirty2.jpg
    First step is to wipe the casing all down with degreaser, so I can actually see what I am dealing with.
    generatorfancover1.jpg
    The end cover for the fan is held on by 3 screws. Once off, I was greeted to a rather peculiar looking sight.
    generatorfancover2.jpg
    That is grease that the fan has spun out. At least it made for an interesting texture / pattern.
    generatorfancover3.jpg

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    The fan is stamped RE&E Co, W6114B held on by a large lock nut.
    generatorfanremoval1.jpg
    The lock nut was on quite tight. Looking at the fan blades they looked fairly substantial, so I used a long piece of wood to block them, so I could remove the lock nut.
    generatorfanremoval2.jpg
    Once the nut was off, I used two 5/16 fully threaded bolts to jack the fan off of the shaft. I first learned this trick when dealing with stubborn brake rotors on a car.
    generatorfanremoval3.jpg
    That worked really slick, and off came the fan.
    generatorfanremoval4.jpg
    Looking into the motor, it is absolutely filthy. It looks even worse on the inside!
    generatorfanendremoval5.jpg

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    First step to remove the fan housing / end cover is to unscrew, the grease fitting pipe. Technically it doesn't need to come off at this stage, but its easiest to do it now.
    generatorfanendremoval2.jpg
    There are 3 bolts around the circumference of the fan housing that need to get removed.
    generatorfanendremoval3.jpg
    One of them is hiding in the vent for the fan. Unfortunately, my snapon ratcheting wrenches wouldn't fit on the head of the bolt, so I had to do it the slow way one turn at a time.
    generatorfanendremoval4.jpg
    Next, I removed the two bolts that hold the bearing plate on. Those bolts are longer than the 3 that hold the plate on.
    generatorfanendremoval5.jpg
    A light tap on the the mounting brackets and fan vent will loosen the end cover form the motor case.


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    Next, I switched my attention to the other end of the generator.
    First I removed the grease port to get it out of the way.
    generatorgreasefitting.jpg
    I used a hex socket to remove the set screw holding the sheave on.

    generatorsheaveremoval1.jpg
    I then used a two jar puller to remove the sheave from the shaft.
    generatorsheaveremoval2.jpg
    The sheave is a Browning AK32. Same as the sheave that is on the Exciter.
    generatorsheave.jpg

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    Next, I labeled the brush holders and the wires with color coded zipties. Same as I did on the exciter. This will get replaced later with color coded heat shrink.
    generatorbrushwires1.jpggeneratorbrushwires2.jpg
    I then removed the wires from the brush holders. It's worth noting the orientation of the brushes at this point. I have not found any alignment marks yet, but will keep and eye out of them when cleaning.
    generatorbrushorientation.jpg
    Next, the two bolts that hold the bearing end cap on get removed along with the end cap.
    generatorbearingplate1.jpg
    That grease is rock hard.
    generatorbearingplate2.jpg

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    The rotor can now be pulled out the fan side of the motor.
    generatorrotorremoval.jpg
    It is massive. Its got some weight to it, but easily managed by one person.
    generatorrotor1.jpg
    Its covered in grease. Not the best sign.
    generatorrotor2.jpg
    generatorrotor3.jpg
    Argh. I hope that cleans up well using the electrical cleaner I bought. Right now, I'm thinking its really good that I bought a full case.

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    Now, Lets have a peak inside the generator.
    Here is a look at the winding on the fan end.
    generatorinternaldirty1.jpg
    That does not look good at all. Lets take a look even deeper inside.
    generatorinternaldirty2.jpg
    At this point I decided I have had enough for the night and cracked a beer. I'm not looking forward to dealign with this mess in the am. If there was ever a case for using sealed bearings in a motor / generator, etc. This is it. This reaffirmed my decision to replace the Exciter bearings with newer sealed versions and I think I will do the following with the generator as well. I'm actually at this point quite amazed it even powered up when I bought it!
    Last edited by GrantGunderson; 10-23-2021 at 09:08 AM.

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  15. #172
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    Quote Originally Posted by GrantGunderson View Post
    ...
    Once the nut was off, I used two 5/16 fully threaded bolts to jack the fan off of the shaft. I first learned this trick when dealing with stubborn brake rotors on a car.
    generatorfanremoval3.jpg
    That worked really slick, and off came the fan.
    generatorfanremoval4.jpg
    ....
    I bet that the two 5/16 holes are there just to facilitate removing the fan.

    One of the things on my TO DO list is to see if a different fan would make the MG run more quietly. If you have any plans to test the MG outside the base, you might want to run it with the fan off and see how much noise the fan makes. A different fan, or perhaps electric fans controlled by a thermal switch would be options.

    Cal

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cal Haines View Post
    I bet that the two 5/16 holes are there just to facilitate removing the fan.

    One of the things on my TO DO list is to see if a different fan would make the MG run more quietly. If you have any plans to test the MG outside the base, you might want to run it with the fan off and see how much noise the fan makes. A different fan, or perhaps electric fans controlled by a thermal switch would be options.

    Cal
    Cal, I bet you are correct with purpose of the 5/16 holes. I was really glad they where there and obvious. I'd like to test the units prior to reinstalling them, but I dont think I will have time this fall, as I need to run a new power line to where the lathe will go and purchase a new VFD for it. When I installed my Bridgeport I wired a new sub-panel specially to power it with the idea of adding a lathe latter. So while it should be simple, I am quickly running out of time before work season starts back up.
    I'm curious if anyone else has tested different fans in these units.

    After looking at the Generator again this morning, I decided the best approach to it will be to remove the DC field windings to be able to better clean it. Before I can do that I need the permatex heat shrink labels I ordered to arrive. I also need to order more electrical cleaner for it. The case I ordered was not enough to do it plus the Exciter and the DC Motor.

    So I moved on to the DC motor and the Back Gear Box. I already drained the gearbox oil, but if that hasn't been done, it needs to be done before proceding.

    First step, is the Back Gear box needs to be removed. It is held on by 4 long bolts that go all the way through its front plate, body and then into the DC motor plate.
    backgearboxteardown1.jpg
    The back gear box is a petty simple affair. Basically there is a yoke that drives the clutch and back gear forward / back.
    backgearboxteardown2.jpg
    The output gear does not appear to have seen much use. It is in really good shape. Only minor wear on the front of the teeth from engagement and there is some minor wear to the clutch engagement. Thankfully, nothing to worry about.
    backgearboxteardown3.jpg
    The main back gear box unit can then be removed. First, it helps to use a small putty knife around its edge to help break the seal from the back gasket. It has two alignment pins in the back that have a very snug fit. I was able to pull it off by wiggling it back and forth as evenly as possible. Once you get it part way out, you can pull the clutch off of the motor's output shaft.
    backgearboxteardown4.jpg
    The output shaft of the motor is stamped with 827780. No idea what that correlates too. If anyone has any idea I would love to know.
    backgearboxteardown5.jpg

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    The motor's mount plate also has a "D" stamped in it. I'm guess thats a fitters mark.
    backgearboxteardown6.jpg
    We can now tear the back gear box down for cleaning.

    First the 4 hex screws that hold the output shaft bearing plate get removed. Note the output shaft was balanced by drilling two holes in it.
    backgearboxteardown7.jpg
    Now that the bearing plate is out of the way, I then clamped the unit in the brass soft jaws of my vise and tapped the woodruff key out.
    backgearboxteardown8.jpg
    It was very snug! The washer behind the key can then be removed.
    backgearboxteardown9.jpg
    The output shaft then slides right out the back.
    backgearboxteardown10.jpg


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    Next, I removed the 3 small hex screws that hold the bearing mount plate in. This plate serves to keep the bearing mounted at the correct depth, so upon reassembly it will need to get installed prior to pressing in the bearing. I then tapped the plate out.
    backgearboxteardown11.jpgbackgearboxteardown12.jpg
    I then took the back gear box's front plate over to the arbor press. I pressed the small bearing out using a socket as a drift first.
    backgearboxteardown13.jpg
    The larger bearings get done next. The outer shielded bearing, has a retaining ring on it. So it has to get pushed out from the back. So first I pushed the bearing spacer ring around so it was off set.
    backgearboxteardown14.jpg
    I then used a large socket as a drift to press on that spacer ring to press the rear, fully open cage bearing out.
    backgearboxteardown15.jpg

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    I then flipped the plate over and pressed out the front bearing.
    backgearboxteardown16.jpg
    The gear box is designed so the gear box oil lubricates both of the front bearing and the outer shield on the outer bearing serves as its seal. The mounting plate was also stamped with Monarch's part number EE2458 and MT CO. I am guessing MT, is the casting company?

    There was a minimal amount of 70's years of sludge in the bottom of the gear box. It has a few metallic particles but not anything to be of concern.
    backgearboxteardown17.jpg
    I then removed the bottom drain plug and the top fill plug. It's worth noting that the top fill plug is a vented plug.
    backgearboxteardown18.jpg
    The oil height sight gauge is held on by 3 hex screws.
    backgearboxteardown19.jpg
    It is Monarch part number EE2603

    backgearboxteardown20.jpg

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    I used a parallel ground #4 screw driver to remove the screws so I woundnt mangle them.
    backgearboxteardown21.jpg
    To get the retaining plate and glass out, I used a small splunger that has a bent knife edge on it to cut the cork gasket between the glass and the front plate.
    backgearboxteardown22.jpg
    And out it came.
    backgearboxteardown23.jpg
    Here is where I got stuck for a bit. The pin holding the shift lever on to the yoke shaft is pretty frozen in. Despite a few attempts at heating it, no luck. So I am going to let it soak in Kroil overnight. I had the same issue with two pins that hold the yoke on the shaft its self. So we will see if I can make progress on that in the am. Worst case that will be easy to clean in place.

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    Ok, now on to tearing down the DC motor.

    First I labeled the brush mount and the brush wires with color coded zip ties.
    dcmotorteardown1.jpgdcmotorteardown2.jpg
    The brush wires get disconnected next. They are held on by two very large nuts. I think I used a 15/16 wrench.
    dcmotorteardown3.jpg
    Next, I removed the keyway from the motor's output shaft. It's held in by two small hex screws.
    dcmotorteardown4.jpg
    I then removed the grease port from the back of the motor.
    dcmotorteardown5.jpg

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    It's worth noting there is also a small plug opposite of it that is the grease exit port when greasing the motor.
    dcmotorteardown6.jpg
    The front bushing of the motor's front bell actually gets lubed by a small oil passage in the back of the gear box. Clever.

    The 4 bolts retaining the rear bearing plate get removed next.
    dcmotorteardown7.jpgdcmotorteardown8.jpg
    The front and rear of the motor, each have 4 bolts that hold the bells on.
    dcmotorteardown9.jpg
    So a total of 8 more bolts get removed. They are all the same size.

    Now it a good time to note the alignment marks on the top of the motor near the name plate. There is a single dot on each side to align the front bell and two dots to align the rear bell. The casing is also stamped 47-8069
    dcmotorteardown10.jpg

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    I then worked my way around both sides using a long cold chisel to tap each bell off.
    dcmotorteardown11.jpg
    The two ends will then easily pull right apart. Note, the rear with the rotor attached is VERY heavy!
    dcmotorteardown12.jpg
    The motor is actually in really good shape and relatively clean, especially compared to the generator!
    dcmotorteardown13.jpg
    In the center of the rear plate, is a small Reliance branded plug. This can easily be removed with a splunger tool. This will provide access to press the shaft of the rotor out.
    dcmotorteardown14.jpg
    I'll need to cut some large wooden blocks to support the bell before I proceed with removing the shaft. Hopefully that will be tomorrow.

    Moving on to the front bell end. There is an alignment mark on the brush holder and the front bell that needs to be noted so the brush unit can be reinstalled with the correct orientation.
    dcmotorteardown15.jpg


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