Getting a Monarch Series 61 Back in Service
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  1. #1
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    Default Getting a Monarch Series 61 Back in Service

    Decided to upgrade to a gear head lathe. Looking around a bit, I took a shot on Monarch Series 61. I got it from HGR Industrial Surplus in Ohio and shipped to Texas. A bit of a gamble, as I didn't personally inspect the machine. With the cost fairly reasonable and the pics available, thought I'd give it a go.

    Catalogue Size 16", actual swing 18.5" 54" between centers.
    Serial 41834, Build date 8-1956

    2.jpg

    Note the black tape on cabinet door of tail stock side base, funny story. . .

    Of the 3 or 4 lathes I was considering, this seemed in best condition from the pics. Other deciding factors: One, the Aloris wedge style tool post, some value by itself, but was guessing it was a CA size, and I'm already set up for CA currently. Two, the taper attachment was complete, and had bed clamp.

    1.jpg 3.jpg 4.jpg 6.jpg

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    More pics from the listing:

    5.jpg 7.jpg 8.jpg 9.jpg 11.jpg

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    And more pics from listing, again the black tape on base. . .:

    10.jpg 12.jpg 13.jpg 14.jpg 15.jpg

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    Received it a little more than a week after the transaction was complete.

    27.jpg

    Was walking around it just getting a visual inspection, and was wondering if the door on base of tail stock side was broke. I cut the tape off. Door was fine. Opened it. . .

    Jackpot ! ! !

    Steady rest and follower rest inside ! They were not in original pics or description, I feel I got real lucky on that.

    28.jpg 29.jpg

    There was a third item, I have no clue what it is:

    30.jpg

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    Quote Originally Posted by texasgunsmith View Post
    Received it a little more than a week after the transaction was complete.
    Nice !

    Unsolicited advice : don't get carried away on fixing up. Change the oil, put an 8 1/2" six jaw on her, maybe check the square on the clutch lever (I find 6" of free play annoying) and make parts !

    One place I worked had three just like that, lined up in a row, they are pretty nice.

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    Inspecting ways they seem decent, not perfect. Mostly they need a cleaning. Inside of vee way has a little bit of noticable wear, as well as rear flat way. All things considered, I think its got a lot of mileage left.

    32.jpg 33.jpg 34.jpg 35.jpg

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    Lifted the lid to check head stock gears. Looks a little dirty, but all the gear teeth are there, nothing obvious wasted or broken.

    20.jpg

    Checking some of the end gears, also really grimy, but no obvious damage or excessive wear to anything.

    36.jpg

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    The machine has the rare and desirable "Lead Screw Reverse" allows for the most precise threading in English, and of course metric threads, along with leads.
    The mechanical screw reverse allows threading at higher speeds up to a shoulder, or to the bottom of a blind hole, no relief grooves needed, and fade the thread out like a pro instead of a Mo Mo.
    ...
    Anyway, metric conversion end train gears, are similar to those of the EE, they have to be of finer pitch to fit inside the small covered compartment.
    Buying a new machine is a bit nerve wracking.
    Last edited by Cal Haines; 07-28-2020 at 06:50 PM. Reason: off topic comments removed

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    I appreciate the info. My first Monarch, and know not much about them, except what I have been cram reading/researching the past few weeks.

    About the nerve wracking part. . .yeah.

    I was feeling pretty uptight prior to, and after purchase, until I received it. Condition of machine, moving/rigging, finances. . . Now that its in front of me, I actually feel a lot more calm.

    Its currently at my job's shop. I need to break it down into maybe 7 or 8 pieces to get it moved into my home shop. I have a bunch of pics to post, but its going well, and seems to be in pretty good shape.

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    I have one in transit, and hoping it will get here in one piece, the lathe is an Axelson with 16" swing. I was looking at many machines, including model 60, and 61 Monarchs, and Americans with 30" centers, and there are many good machines for sale now with short beds.
    If I would of found a model 61 with Lead Screw Reverse and short bed, I would have bought it. I did find a few American Pacemakers with it, but those are very heavy, and have 15 or 20hp motors.
    There is a job I have to do that is a double lead Acme thread form, and the Lead Screw Reverse makes shaving the flanks of the threads easy to do for a good fit.
    The Axelson will be a little slower, but effective as the spindle action works much the same as an EE model, when the spindle clutch control lever is moved to neutral the spindle rapidly brakes hydraulic from the oil feed pump, the lever then moved to reverse, the machine reverses instantly using a reversing shaft on the Racine double shipper clutch. A little more crude then the EEs electronic drive, but effective.
    The screws reverse system in the model 61 uses a simple single tooth clutch on the leadscrew to keep the timing when cutting metric threads for example, with the half nuts being left engaged the whole time, reducing the half nut camming in error. In practice a thread can be cut using the threading dial and half nuts as usual, then for the finish cuts, use the lead Screw reverse for that perfect fit leaving the halfnuts engaged reducing error. Also, the machine can be speeded up "within reason" or faster then one can open and close the half nuts using the thread dial, most noticeable improvement using carbide threading tools.

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    Quote Originally Posted by texasgunsmith View Post
    All things considered, I think its got a lot of mileage left.
    It will.

    But the softer Cast Iron, UNDERSIDE of the carriage, as mates to those ways, will have four or more times as much wear as the hardened ways.

    The less take-apart, the more care in simply arranging safe and sane rigging, the better-off you be starting out.

    Rather than dive straight into any sort of "refurbi-shit" project? MOST used lathes made decent parts last time they was run. If transport, settin', then more transport ain't messed 'em up, might still do?

    More better to work with it a tad first, assess, take notes, thoroughly research the specifics of each challenge or shortcoming and make a preliminary plan, then update the plan as you go.

    Cheaper. Fewer surprises. Less out-of-action time. DAMHIKT!

    2CW

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    ... show some photos like this,

    ...

    Even though I am making this arbor for an obsolete large table saw on an ee using the Electric Lead Screw Reverse, it can just as easily could have been made using the mechanical Lead Screw Reverse on the model 61 with stunning results I am sure.

    The part has two left hand threads, one on the right is a stub acme.

    ...
    Last edited by Cal Haines; 07-28-2020 at 06:57 PM. Reason: off topic comments removed

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    Quote Originally Posted by donie View Post
    The mechanical screw reverse allows threading at higher speeds up to a shoulder, or to the bottom of a blind hole, no relief grooves needed, and fade the thread out like a pro instead of a Mo Mo.
    Could you explain that in more detail or show a pic of a thread to a shoulder using the lead screw reverse? Some EEs have something called "electric lead screw reverse" I think, not mechanical lead screw reverse. Is that something else? They appear to have no way of retracting the tool from the thread, all they do is stop the lathe at the end of the thread. Is that correct?

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    Quote Originally Posted by texasgunsmith View Post
    Received it a little more than a week after the transaction was complete.

    27.jpg

    Was walking around it just getting a visual inspection, and was wondering if the door on base of tail stock side was broke. I cut the tape off. Door was fine. Opened it. . .

    Jackpot ! ! !

    Steady rest and follower rest inside ! They were not in original pics or description, I feel I got real lucky on that.

    28.jpg 29.jpg

    There was a third item, I have no clue what it is:

    30.jpg
    I looked at that lathe at HGR, I think you did good!

    One thing I was curious about was the second rod coming out of the taper attachment, I’m curious to the function of it it?

    BTW, the third item is just junk, I will gladly take it off your hands if you decide to sell it?

    It’s actually for a DoAll vertical saw, it's a miter attachment, looks like it’s missing a couple of parts?

    Like I said, I’m interested in the attachment if you decide to part with it?

    Kevin

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    Quote Originally Posted by bsg View Post
    I looked at that lathe at HGR, I think you did good!

    One thing I was curious about was the second rod coming out of the taper attachment, Iím curious to the function of it it?

    BTW, the third item is just junk, I will gladly take it off your hands if you decide to sell it?

    Itís actually for a DoAll vertical saw, it's a miter attachment, looks like itís missing a couple of parts?

    Like I said, Iím interested in the attachment if you decide to part with it?

    Kevin
    I was shopping around and looking at a couple of Pacemakers and a couple of Monarchs, I started a thread in the Antique section here. After purchase I posted some pics there. johnoder mentioned the T/A rod:
    Monarch 61 vs Pacemaker Lathe

    He said Monarch added it to help push bed clamp along when not in use, so as not to break the edge of it off. He has a pic.

    I'll post more pics of that doall attachment later this evening.

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    Beautiful machine. Nice score on the rests!!! Let me know if you need some advice on taking things apart. I took mine apart as well and have plenty of pictures.

    Jared

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    Congrats, looks good

    Clean it oil it run it

    I have had my 12CK for almost 30 years and still enjoy running it, even though it is set up for one job and the clutch is dead....I like the fast action of it even better than my EE

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    Quote Originally Posted by texasgunsmith View Post
    Received it a little more than a week after the transaction was complete.

    27.jpg

    Was walking around it just getting a visual inspection, and was wondering if the door on base of tail stock side was broke. I cut the tape off. Door was fine. Opened it. . .

    Jackpot ! ! !

    Steady rest and follower rest inside ! They were not in original pics or description, I feel I got real lucky on that.

    28.jpg 29.jpg

    There was a third item, I have no clue what it is:

    30.jpg
    That third piece in the cabinet looks like a clamp on dial indicator base.

    Edit:
    I see that bsg identified the third part as a Do All part

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    Oh man, leadscrew reverse doth rule!
    On my 60 it is a pleasure to thread. There is lots of play in mine, and not the lever key itself, because previous owner used it with regular power feed, and at higher RPM!

    Donít do that, of course!

    But still, even with lots of play itís AMAZING.

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    Quote Originally Posted by donie View Post
    ... watch that 6" of clutch play, nuyk nuyk.
    Not sure what you are sneering at but if you ever had one, the motor runs all the time, the clutch lever on the carriage rides on a square shaft, after years of use the square hole can get bogged out and at the end of the handle you get several inches of play before the clutch engages or disengages.

    I personally find that annoying. Maybe you don't care. But it frequently happens.


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