Getting a Monarch Series 61 Back in Service - Page 10
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  1. #181
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    Cal's thread requesting 10EE build sheets reminded me I wanted to get mine. It's 2 pages. The first two pics are each page, the other 3 pics I zoomed a bit for easier reading.

    345.jpg 346.jpg 347.jpg 348.jpg 349.jpg

  2. #182
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    After clearing several projects, I'm finally able to get back to this machine. I started back on it a couple weeks ago. So far I've mostly been cleaning up and getting organized. Plus prepping to finish out paint work. I intend on diving a little deeper into a rebuild than originally planned. So I'd like to have most of the dirty work of sanding, scraping, and painting done prior to getting into that.

    One of the items I was attending too was the headstock top cover. I hadn't noticed previous, but flipping it over I noticed a piece of the casting webbing was missing and painted over, presumably from factory.

    389.jpg

    Then looking closer, I noticed the webbing adjacent to it appeared cracked, but also painted over:

    390.jpg

    Now I assume this has been this way many years, maybe since 1956. But I could move the cracked piece with little effort. As it dangles directly above gear train in headstock, I didn't want to leave that way. Just giving it a light tap with hammer it popped off. Structurally, I think I'm fine, the cover is a beast at about a 100lbs.

    391.jpg

  3. #183
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    Again, the headstock cover is a beast, and quite difficult for a single man to move around, let alone trying to lift and set gently on top of headstock. Besides being about a hundred pounds, its large and awkward.

    I had thought of various ways to address it, maybe drilling and tapping for lifting eyes in the middle. But the cast iron is thinner once you get past the outer four edges. But then looking at those four edges, the cast is thicker and heavier there:

    389.jpg

    The hold down bolts are 3/8"-16, with the holes drilled at about .390" through top cover. If tapping a 7/16"-14 threaded hole you would drill to .367". Though the holes through top cover were at .390", and .023" over recommended for a 7/16"-14 tap, I found I could grab plenty with the tap:

    371.jpg

    I tapped 2 holes toward the center of both sides. But in picking it up, I found using 3 lifting eyes it hangs close enough to straight, that I can manage it with one hand. And top of holes can still use the 3/8" allen head bolts.

    392.jpg

    I hadn't seen the top cover on in quite a while, it was a nice change.

    393.jpg 394.jpg

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  5. #184
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    In thinking about it, decided to hang some big pieces for prep and paint, instead of taping everything off.

    Figured I'd start with the qcgb. One trick though. I'm not 100% sure if I'll take that back down once up. And if not, there's an oil seal to be changed before if goes up.

    Thanks to MichaelP and his really great thread, pic heavy , I figured out how to remove the qcgb. And the reason he removed his was due to some oil leaks. Two seals, and the bottom plate of qcgb. Now his is a 13", so slightly different, but close enough for anyone with a Series 60/61 to figure out.

    Because of his thread, I bought seals to replace them. I also flooded the bottom of my qcgb to check bottom plate. Mine does not leak, so I'm not messing with the plate, hopefully Murphy and his ridiculous laws don't catch up to me.

    MichaelP's thread:
    Monarch Ser.60 Gearbox Removal Illustrated

    Rolling my qcgb over to the base:

    397.jpg

    A reason to change these seals is I believe they are below the oil line. One seal can be accessed with qcgb mounted. Its on the bottom, middle shaft in this pic:

    398.jpg

    The other seal can only be accessed with qcgb removed. Its on the back side, and its for part of the whole clutch lever assembly, this particular seal is for a shaft running front to rear of machine, where on the rear of headstock you see external clutch linkage.

    399.jpg 400.jpg

  6. #185
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    Again, thanks to MichaelP I knew what part numbers to buy.

    CR7512 and CR7513. They both have the same ID and OD. The difference is 7512 is a single lip seal, and the 7513 is a double lip seal. Either will work in either location. But the idea was to put the single lip where its hidden on back side with no dust. And the 7513 where it may be exposed to debris and such.

    401.jpg 402.jpg

    Not sure if the rear side seal was original or not, but it was surely old, and old style. A bear to get it out, and appeared solid, with some bronze in it as well:

    403.jpg 404.jpg

    Now the funny story . So I'm tapping 7512 into the rear, hidden spot. Nearly done, and I slip and bang the seal with the hammer. Hard enough to dent it. Dammit !

    Anyway the rear hidden location now has CR7513 installed ! And another 7513 ordered, which I can install even with qcgb up into place.

    405.jpg

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  8. #186
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    This is a fantastic thread and great job documenting your rebuild.

    I love seeing the design of all of these components, amazing machinists, Monarch was.

    I have a Series 61, 13x30 with a slight dimensional issue, originally planned to have the bed ground + turcite, that project stalled for various other "scope creep" tasks and I solved the lack of a running machine with a series 61-2 @ 16x30....

    I've head the carriage and apron and the shafts off the 61 but I can appreciate the absolute need for bridge crane or gantry to even get started on the project....and maybe even a good chunk of floor space to house the various assemblies.

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  10. #187
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    Quote Originally Posted by matt_isserstedt View Post
    This is a fantastic thread and great job documenting your rebuild.

    I love seeing the design of all of these components, amazing machinists, Monarch was.

    I have a Series 61, 13x30 with a slight dimensional issue, originally planned to have the bed ground + turcite, that project stalled for various other "scope creep" tasks and I solved the lack of a running machine with a series 61-2 @ 16x30....

    I've head the carriage and apron and the shafts off the 61 but I can appreciate the absolute need for bridge crane or gantry to even get started on the project....and maybe even a good chunk of floor space to house the various assemblies.
    I am continually amazed at how good Monarch machining was. The 59 lathe I am working on has the original base casting and gearbox, but the bed and headstock came from 2 different machines. And all of the fits were perfect. I did not need to scrape the headstock to get 2 tenths taper 6" out.

    I used a cherry picker to install the bed and headstock, but I wish I had designed a gantry crane into the structure of my shop when I built it.

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  12. #188
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    Was out of town a couple of days, so didn't get too far. Wanted to address another item on the qcgb before putting it up. An idler gear sits kind of in a pocket, which can collect trash, and did, though I didn't catch it in this pic:

    406.jpg

    Best way to clean it out is a cover that can only be accessed with qcgb off:

    407.jpg

    With it off we can better see the garbage collected there. Oil drain hole goes out the back, so it wasn't blocked. I did find a small set screw in that mess, but its nothing to do with this gear. I'll have to look at the parts that go above it when the time comes.

    408.jpg

  13. #189
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    In the previous post I mentioned finding a set screw mixed in with some swarf. Here it is on the end on an allen key now:

    410.jpg

    Peaking around the back of headstock, I found where it went. A retaining plate at back of main spindle:

    411.jpg

    I had two mild panicking thoughts. One, dammit had head stock been repaired ? with set screws like a ring gear on a gear repair ? Two, that plate was not flush/even, so do I potentially have bearing damage now ? Dammit !

    I found by tapping gently with a hammer, that plate went flush. You can see oil squeezing out seem from that:

    413.jpg

    Got the plate flush, and set screw started. Now, was it a repair ? or do I have bearing damage ?

    A quick check of parts book, and I'll say no. In parts book C34 is that plate. Spindle bearing adjusting nuts are C35. They don't press on plate. The plate is for oil retention only.

    414.jpg

    Further confirmation. Lower left corner is where that bearing assembly is. The bearing is adjusted against headstock housing, not that plate:

    20.jpg

    I can drink a little less now.

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  15. #190
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    Quote Originally Posted by texasgunsmith View Post
    I can drink a little less now.
    Why start/stop now?

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  17. #191
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    You're making better progress on yours than I am on the 612. I finally got the QCGB remounted last week after fixing that tumbler. The rapid traverse motor makes that a bit more challenging. I'll update my thread at some point when I have enough progress to post something informative ...

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  19. #192
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    I've got the majority of prep work done. Still need to tape off and isolate the machine with drop clothes before shooting. Primarily I'm shooting headstock end and base, and the TS end's base. Not overly obsessive, but pretty fair prep work where I filled dings, chips, and other blemishes. The end result should come out pretty good I think.
    Not sure if pics do it justice, but its a lot of real-estate to cover.

    425.jpg 426.jpg 427.jpg

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  21. #193
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    Quote Originally Posted by texasgunsmith View Post
    The end result should come out pretty good I think.
    Not sure if pics do it justice, but its a lot of real-estate to cover.
    What do you think about the chip pan in white ? I've seen several blue-and-white machines, they look pretty good. This one would look funky if you did multicolored but maybe just the chip pan would be okay and make the whole thing not as much of a giant blob of color ?

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  23. #194
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    Quote Originally Posted by EmanuelGoldstein View Post
    What do you think about the chip pan in white ? I've seen several blue-and-white machines, they look pretty good. This one would look funky if you did multicolored but maybe just the chip pan would be okay and make the whole thing not as much of a giant blob of color ?
    I hadn't considered the exterior of chip pan white, but that's not a terrible idea. I was toying with the idea of interior white, but not sure if the mess when in use will wreck that. But chip pan will be last. Its still at my job, out of the way due to floor space right now.

    There will be white on all the head stock handles similar to what I did on TS here:

    202.jpg 203.jpg

    Besides the handles, some other portions will be white. The largest of those you can see in my last post, if you look at the motor base. The top section that serves like chip and coolant run off will be white. Also the same section on top side of TS base:

    430.jpg

    Also I intend 4 small covers in the white, one being the power switch cover on motor base, and these 3:

    428.jpg 429.jpg

    Also, with real eyeballs the blue does not look so sharpe or harsh. Not sure if its my camera or florescent lights, but the blue is a touch softer, more baby blue with real eyes on it. I noticed that when posting pics. . .

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  25. #195
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    I actually feel a bit more committed to the blue with white trimmings now. Had a few shaky moments where I was wavering. But I feel like I can "see" it now. And the machine will be bracketed by two darker green machines, once I'm squared away.

    Still not too late to change though !

    If I did change the white trimming would remain. But vast majority of lathe would the color of this Bridgeport column, and B & S:

    1.jpg 107.jpg

    And if you note the darker green of overarm. If doing the lathe, TS and apron would be the darker green, while majority of lathe the less dark green of column. Its actually my intention for the 10ee when I get to it.

    So the 10ee and Bridgeport will bracket the big blue beast. Current plan anyway . Unless everyone convinces me to go that green scheme on the 61 as well.

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    Quote Originally Posted by texasgunsmith View Post
    I actually feel a bit more committed to the blue with white trimmings now. Had a few shaky moments where I was wavering. But I feel like I can "see" it now. And the machine will be bracketed by two darker green machines, once I'm squared away.

    Still not too late to change though !

    If I did change the white trimming would remain. But vast majority of lathe would the color of this Bridgeport column, and B & S:

    1.jpg 107.jpg

    And if you note the darker green of overarm. If doing the lathe, TS and apron would be the darker green, while majority of lathe the less dark green of column. Its actually my intention for the 10ee when I get to it.

    So the 10ee and Bridgeport will bracket the big blue beast. Current plan anyway . Unless everyone convinces me to go that green scheme on the 61 as well.
    "Convince?" Above my pay grade. You would need advice from someone more autistically inclined.

    Too late to hire Chesley Bonestell, Kelly Freas, or Jackson Pollock, but I hear Robert Hunter Biden is doing paintings.... if you can stand the weird stench of the smoke from burning carpet lint, cat furr, and ersatz Parmesan cheese while he does his "thing"..

    Art is a VERY Big Deal.

    I once knew a Regional Director who was sacked.
    Because he had put higher priority on painting the carparks blue .. than on earning revenue.

    His replacement quit.
    Because his new next-higher expected him to do the same!

    Go figure.

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    Quote Originally Posted by texasgunsmith View Post
    But I feel like I can "see" it now.
    Since I'm mostly an artistic failure, I use photoshop, or anything like that. Pretty easy to swap colors around and see with the real eyes kinda sorta what it will look like.

    Looks like Mr Lathe is coming right along tho, cool. Next time I need an Aermet 100 prop shaft, I know who to bother

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    Impressive progress. And you're doing a much nicer job than I am in repainting.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rabler View Post
    Impressive progress. And you're doing a much nicer job than I am in repainting.
    Downside is that Charlie's psoriasis-like "before" photos have me wanting to ship him a tub of Beijing Bao Shu Tang, Bao Fu Ling ... or Arnica salve ... for treating the nasty skin disease on the not-yet top-coated parts of it!


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  31. #200
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    Quote Originally Posted by rabler View Post
    Impressive progress. And you're doing a much nicer job than I am in repainting.
    Appreciate it. Looks like I'm getting a lot done, but I'll be taking a leap backwards after I paint.

    I plan a little more of an aggressive rebuild of way surfaces and such, which I didn't originally plan on doing. I think painting first might seem a bit counter intuitive, but I don't want all the dirt and dust associated with clean up, prep, and paint after I start doing the other stuff.

    I'd rather deal with touch ups of nicks and scratches I might cause during the backwards step, then doing the full monty afterwards.

    A couple of plus sides imo. One, I should be to just toss pieces on as I'm ready, and not deal with individual prep, clean, paint, and clean up of each piece individual. And two, the painted parts will have weeks, if not months of curing time. Not that I need that much time for curing, but the paint I use seems to turn into concrete after extended periods.

    But take all that with a grain of salt. As a few people here might tell you, if I have one deranged or eccentric part of me, it's painting. My results are usually pretty good, but I feel like I loose my mind a little bit during the process .


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