goin down to bare ways on '56 10ee, questions

Vetro · Jan 21, 2021

Hi all! currently have my 10ee down to the saddle having stripped and completely disassembled and cleaned the cross slide/dial, compound slide/dial, TA and TS. now the fun part, lol...wipers are shot and i have already chased a bunch of chips out. ways are scored and probably getting worse. I have some questions and im sure some have been addressed in other threads. i have, and continue to work my through basically this whole forum but was hoping i could get a few quick answers or links to appropriate threads...so here we go!

-Can/should I pull the saddle without pulling the apron? it may be a couple weeks before i have time to deal with dropping the whole thing, taper pins, etc but i would love to clean any remaining chips out from under the saddle before replacing the wipers. doesnt seem like an issue but i do notice the f/r control rod does get in the way of support blocks for the apron
-I found a whole bunch of stringy mess inside the cross feed dial. it was everywhere so had to be cleaned out but was it there intentionally? a rotted out gasket? oil sump packing? should i replace it and exactly where(it had spread all over)and with what?
-do y'all grease anything in the dials(or anywhere else above the ways)or just way oil em up when reassembling?
-any links to/tips for disassembly for TA dial?
-same for TA shoe/Swivel?
-the last gear on the cross dial is stuck, is this just a rusty woodruff key or is something else holding it? just wanted confirmation before i apply any mechanical force

TYIA for any input!!

Pics are precleaning...they are much prettier now :-)

rimcanyon · Jan 21, 2021

Vetro said:
Hi all! currently have my 10ee down to the saddle having stripped and completely disassembled and cleaned the cross slide/dial, compound slide/dial, TA and TS. now the fun part, lol...wipers are shot and i have already chased a bunch of chips out. ways are scored and probably getting worse. I have some questions and im sure some have been addressed in other threads. i have, and continue to work my through basically this whole forum but was hoping i could get a few quick answers or links to appropriate threads...so here we go!

-Can/should I pull the saddle without pulling the apron? it may be a couple weeks before i have time to deal with dropping the whole thing, taper pins, etc but i would love to clean any remaining chips out from under the saddle before replacing the wipers. doesnt seem like an issue but i do notice the f/r control rod does get in the way of support blocks for the apron
-I found a whole bunch of stringy mess inside the cross feed dial. it was everywhere so had to be cleaned out but was it there intentionally? a rotted out gasket? oil sump packing? should i replace it and exactly where(it had spread all over)and with what?
-do y'all grease anything in the dials(or anywhere else above the ways)or just way oil em up when reassembling?
-any links to/tips for disassembly for TA dial?
-same for TA shoe/Swivel?
-the last gear on the cross dial is stuck, is this just a rusty woodruff key or is something else holding it? just wanted confirmation before i apply any mechanical force

TYIA for any input!!

Pics are precleaning...they are much prettier now :-)

View attachment 311211 View attachment 311212 View attachment 311213 View attachment 311214

Most of your questions are answered in prior posts, so don’t be afraid to search the forum.

Yes, you can pull the saddle without pulling the apron, but support the apron with a 2x4 so all the weight is not on the leadscrew, etc. However, it won’t buy you much. If you want to replace the bed guide bearings, you are going to need to pull the apron. Besides, you are going to want to service the lube pump and that is a lot easier with the apron off.

There should not be any packing or gaskets inside the cross feed dial assembly.

Which gear are you referring to as the “last gear” on the cross feed? The inboard gear is part of the cross feed stub shaft, and comes out with the shaft. The gear that drives the accumulating dial gear train should slide right off the stub shaft - then you can remove the woodruff key and the stub shaft will slide out towards the rear.

No grease is used in the dial assembly, it is lubricated by the lube system, so it gets a constant supply of way oil when the pump is working. Before you reassemble everything, verify that the lube system is working and oil flows to every lubed point. Lube those small planetary gears and verify that the gear train moves easily. The smallest gear often gets broken by forcing it without lube. I have repaired a couple of these by buying pinion stock from Boston Gear and turning a shaft to fit.

The TA wipers can be purchased from Monarch just like the bed wipers. That includes the felts in the shoe. Disassembly is pretty straight-forward, the pins that hold the ball bearings have eccentrics for adjustment and use the same style of “hog ring” circlip as used on the bed guide bearings. You can remove those hog ring circlips either by prying with a small screwdriver, or by supporting the assembly so that the small eccentric shaft can slide out, and driving it out with a drift, forcing the hog ring out of its groove. That usually works, unless somebody else has been in there before and buggered it up.

Good luck.

m-lud · Jan 21, 2021

rimcanyon said:
Most of your questions are answered in prior posts, so don’t be afraid to search the forum.

Yes, you can pull the saddle without pulling the apron, but support the apron with a 2x4 so all the weight is not on the leadscrew, etc. However, it won’t buy you much. If you want to replace the bed guide bearings, you are going to need to pull the apron. Besides, you are going to want to service the lube pump and that is a lot easier with the apron off.

There should not be any packing or gaskets inside the cross feed dial assembly.

Which gear are you referring to as the “last gear” on the cross feed? The inboard gear is part of the cross feed stub shaft, and comes out with the shaft. The gear that drives the accumulating dial gear train should slide right off the stub shaft - then you can remove the woodruff key and the stub shaft will slide out towards the rear.

No grease is used in the dial assembly, it is lubricated by the lube system, so it gets a constant supply of way oil when the pump is working. Before you reassemble everything, verify that the lube system is working and oil flows to every lubed point. Lube those small planetary gears and verify that the gear train moves easily. The smallest gear often gets broken by forcing it without lube. I have repaired a couple of these by buying pinion stock from Boston Gear and turning a shaft to fit.

The TA wipers can be purchased from Monarch just like the bed wipers. That includes the felts in the shoe. Disassembly is pretty straight-forward, the pins that hold the ball bearings have eccentrics for adjustment and use the same style of “hog ring” circlip as used on the bed guide bearings. You can remove those hog ring circlips either by prying with a small screwdriver, or by supporting the assembly so that the small eccentric shaft can slide out, and driving it out with a drift, forcing the hog ring out of its groove. That usually works, unless somebody else has been in there before and buggered it up.

Good luck.

All of Rimcanyon says!
I biught my 10EE in overall good condition and wanted to just change oil and run it. BUT !! After accessing it I realized years of sitting idle takes a toll on the delicate apron lube system. Plus every bearing that gets greased needs attention.
Your doing the right things and what Rimcanyon says is all 100%.
Dont overlook motor bearings and gearbox. Old grease turns hard and your grease gun wont push fresh grease in. Leadscrew and feed rod end bearings also.

Preventive Maintenance on everything that moves is time well spent

Vetro · Jan 22, 2021

rimcanyon said:
Most of your questions are answered in prior posts, so don’t be afraid to search the forum.

I love the search button and use it often...maybe just not that well

Yes, you can pull the saddle without pulling the apron, but support the apron with a 2x4 so all the weight is not on the leadscrew, etc. However, it won’t buy you much. If you want to replace the bed guide bearings, you are going to need to pull the apron. Besides, you are going to want to service the lube pump and that is a lot easier with the apron off.

fair enough...any suggestions for getting around the control rod with the 2x4s or should i just take it off first? should i maybe just support with an engine hoist instead? am i over thinking this? about how heavy is it?

There should not be any packing or gaskets inside the cross feed dial assembly.

yknow i figured it was just a fluke but ive now read two other comments saying something similar. wonder if they did it a few times than thought better of it or something :scratchchin:

Which gear are you referring to as the “last gear” on the cross feed? The inboard gear is part of the cross feed stub shaft, and comes out with the shaft. The gear that drives the accumulating dial gear train should slide right off the stub shaft - then you can remove the woodruff key and the stub shaft will slide out towards the rear.

yep, thats the one. it wont come free of the stub shaft. just need to work at it i think...i lost the other woodruff key for that shaft, dont happen to know the size on that by any chance, do ya?

No grease is used in the dial assembly, it is lubricated by the lube system, so it gets a constant supply of way oil when the pump is working. Before you reassemble everything, verify that the lube system is working and oil flows to every lubed point. Lube those small planetary gears and verify that the gear train moves easily. The smallest gear often gets broken by forcing it without lube. I have repaired a couple of these by buying pinion stock from Boston Gear and turning a shaft to fit.

perfect, thanks! figured as much but there was so much gunk in mine i figured id ask

The TA wipers can be purchased from Monarch just like the bed wipers. That includes the felts in the shoe. Disassembly is pretty straight-forward, the pins that hold the ball bearings have eccentrics for adjustment and use the same style of “hog ring” circlip as used on the bed guide bearings. You can remove those hog ring circlips either by prying with a small screwdriver, or by supporting the assembly so that the small eccentric shaft can slide out, and driving it out with a drift, forcing the hog ring out of its groove. That usually works, unless somebody else has been in there before and buggered it up.

there are felts in the shoe!? im waiting on my original manual(and the full wiper kit) and the one i have doesnt have any TA drawings so thats news to me

Good luck.

Thanks, and thank you so much for taking the time to answer. this board and folks like you are a lifeline for folks like me :cheers:

m-lud · Jan 22, 2021

To support the apron with 2x4's take it as far too the right as it will go. Two 2x4 blocks will just barley slip under the apron between the bottom of the apron and the chip tray. That well support it to remove the feed rod and lead screw. Strap it so when the rods are slid out it cant fall forward.

Or your engine hoist will work.

Vetro · Jan 23, 2021

mllud22 said:
To support the apron with 2x4's take it as far too the right as it will go. Two 2x4 blocks will just barley slip under the apron between the bottom of the apron and the chip tray. That well support it to remove the feed rod and lead screw. Strap it so when the rods are slid out it cant fall forward.

Or your engine hoist will work.

thanks! yeah, i get the general idea but mine has an elsr control rod that occupies that space. I need to get over my taper pin phobia and pull it probably...

Homebrewblob · Jan 23, 2021

Vetro said:
thanks! yeah, i get the general idea but mine has an elsr control rod that occupies that space. I need to get over my taper pin phobia and pull it probably...

I’ve never worked on a 10EE, Taper pins can become one with the work. Don’t be afraid of them tho, get a feel for them and 95% of the pins you ever encounter in life will do as you ask of them.

Put a lil heat if possible, get *squared up and WACK em out, dont wack them over and over or you’ll mushroom it/break something.

Be confident and give them a good responsible blow the first time

Tony Quiring · Jan 23, 2021

Biggest hammer you have, a gentle drop on a backed up pin and out they come.

Small hammer requires much effort and could mushroom.

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