Headstock Replacement for a 59 10EE
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  1. #1
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    Default Headstock Replacement for a 59 10EE

    This is a project that has been lingering since the damage was done in 2013. The lathe was being moved and the headstock fell from about 5' and broke a corner. I really disliked the idea of welding or brazing the corner, which is the right rear, since it has the V-way and I doubt I could have fixed it well enough, it is a fragile area of the headstock casting. So I purchased a headstock casting from GillM and it has been sitting while I did a bunch of construction projects. Anyway, the original thread is this one: Need a headstock casting for a 59 10EE, but I wanted to start a new thread as I deal with the problems of getting the new headstock rebuilt.

    Here are some photos that show the starting point of the project:

    Interior of the original headstock from the 59 lathe. I took lot of photos to use as a guide.
    img_0360.jpg



    Interior of the replacement headstock. Setscrews removed, everything needs to be re-aligned.
    img_0366.jpg


    The replacement headstock after scraping off the remnants of the original finish and doing some initial cleanup.
    img_0372.jpg



    Spindle removed from the 59 headstock. You can see the broken corner of the casting.
    img_0374.jpg



    The interior of the 59 headstock after removing the spindle and the dog clutch for reverse gear.
    img_0378.jpg

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  3. #2
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    After realigning the fwd and reverse gears and installing setscrews it looks like this:

    Reverse and Fwd gears and shift fork slider:
    img_0379.jpg


    Tach idler gear:
    img_0383.jpg


    However, there is a problem I need some help with. The bearing in the tach idler gear is bad. That's kind of ironic since the only function I can see for this gear is lubrication (it picks up oil from the sump and probably generates a lot of splash inside the headstock). This gear sits on the end of the counter shaft below the spindle. There is a gap of about ⅜" between the end of that countershaft and the web that the spindle bearings sit in (at the top of the photo). The countershaft is supported 100% by the web on the other side of the cavity. The countershaft serves a dual purpose. On the other side of the web it is hollow and has a brass bushing that the fwd/reverse gear shifter slides in. It is evidently pressed in place with an interference fit, so it is not moving with the usual assortment of prybars. I don't want to get rough with it, the prybars rest against the spindle bearing journal. How have you removed or shifted this part? The shaft only needs to be moved about ¼" - ⅜" to make enough space for the phenolic gear to come out at the front end. Maybe I need to make a special tool for this, and another to shift it back later. Maybe I should fill the headstock with dry ice and try it, since steel has a higher coefficient of expansion than cast iron.
    Last edited by rimcanyon; 03-17-2020 at 06:03 PM.

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    Ah yes, I remember? this sorta well. I thought I documented this in a post, I will see if I can find it.It was a real puzzlement at the time. My memory is not great ,but a special alignment tool and removal tool did have to be made. And yes, I think there is no other function for that gear except as a oil slinger. Here is the thread, but unfortunately there is not much good info on the procedure. I will keep looking thru my notes. Geeze that was 16 yrs ago.
    Headstock rebuild

    Look at the 2nd pic on the list looking down into the headstock, and you will see the alum. alignment piece. As I remember...not... you assemble the bearing, slinger gear( tight fit, need little hands then insert the bronze bearing, shift bar, supported by the alignment piece. Drive bush into place(fuzzy?) which is now aligned, then remove the aligment jig and install the rest of the shift bar bearing arrangement.

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    Looking at your pics, I think...and I may be wrong , that you will have to remove the rear sliding shifter bar gear and bush holder and remove the shifter bar. Then you can arrange an all thread/nut type puller to pull out the front oil slinger gear "snout". You'll have to pull a bit, remove the puller to remove the endcap, do it again to remove the gear. Then do the reverse in steps to press in the snout using the slider bar and alignment jig.

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    Quote Originally Posted by daryl bane View Post
    Looking at your pics, I think...and I may be wrong , that you will have to remove the rear sliding shifter bar gear and bush holder and remove the shifter bar. Then you can arrange an all thread/nut type puller to pull out the front oil slinger gear "snout". You'll have to pull a bit, remove the puller to remove the endcap, do it again to remove the gear. Then do the reverse to press in the snout using the slider bar and alignment jig.
    Daryl, thanks for the insight. You can't see the end of the counter shaft from above, but with an iphone I was able to get a picture of the end and confirm that it is hollow:

    img_0386.jpg



    This is the countershaft on the backside of the gear and spacer, with the lock ring slid forward. The little pin stops the spacer from rotating.
    img_0389.jpg


    So what I need to do is remove the rear countershaft first, along with the slider for the gear shifter, then use all thread. Ingenious, thanks for the solution. The rear countershaft has a plug in it. Did you remove the plug and use allthread for that also, or was the rear countershaft removed by pressing it out with a pair of jackscrews or similar? Your photos in the other thread appear to show threading inside the rear countershaft, but its hard to be sure, the image is small (copied below). Probably just wishful thinking.

    img_0391.jpg


    img_0392.jpg


    screen-shot-2020-03-18-11.55.25-am.jpg

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    I am racking my brain to remember. The rear snout does indeed have a plug in the end. Looks like Part# EE1095 or 3 , can't tell. I don't remember er if I drilled and tapped that plug and was able to pull the snout without pulling out the plug...or heated up the headstock around the snout and used the sliding shifter bar as a slide hammer to knock the snout out from the front. If I was at home, I could look and see if I indeed did tap the plug, as there would be a pipe plug in the tapped hole. For some reason, I think I used the shifter bar as a slide hammer to knock out the snout, I don't remember any difficulty about the process. And I think I did the same thing installing the front snout the same way. Maybe using a soft alum washer between the bar and the snout as to not damage it. And with the rear supported by the aligment jig, just tapped it in.

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    OK, here is what I came up with:

    img_0393.jpg
    img_0394.jpg


    So far it isn't budging. I did some hammering but not a lot. The lock collar is loose. The handle is the old handle from my Keller hacksaw. The dowel at the bottom may get in the way, but it made it easy to assemble and it aligns the handle. The ¼" capscrew pivot is the weak spot. There is a ⅝ block of steel to push against, between the lever and the web.

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    Hmmm... I will just have to look when I get home to see if I tapped the plug for a jackscrew. I just don't remember it taking a lot of force to get out.

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    Ok, I got out some pics and although not very clear, for what I could gather here is what I did. I drilled and tapped that plug, used a puller or slide hammer and pulled it. Whether or not the whole snout came out with the plug at this point, I don't know. I then tapped the snout with some fine pitch thread , yes it looks to be threaded in the pic. I don't think it was tapped originally as they made no provision to unscrew the plug, and the parts sheet doesn't indicate a threaded part. I then made a matching threaded plug that was slotted to replace the pressed in one. My thinking was, if I or somebody ever had to get in there again, the snout is now threaded and would be a simple matter to fashion a screw in puller. Again, I have no memory of this(sad) but this is what the photographic evidence tells me.

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    Success! I used a big C-clamp to pull the lever arm and got it out. Once it started moving it was easy. I also pulled the shaft for the fwd. reverse gears, and I plan to replace all the bearings while I have it apart. Some pictures:

    img_0398.jpg


    img_0397.jpg


    img_0396.jpg

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    Quote Originally Posted by daryl bane View Post
    Ok, I got out some pics and although not very clear, for what I could gather here is what I did. I drilled and tapped that plug, used a puller or slide hammer and pulled it. Whether or not the whole snout came out with the plug at this point, I don't know. I then tapped the snout with some fine pitch thread , yes it looks to be threaded in the pic. I don't think it was tapped originally as they made no provision to unscrew the plug, and the parts sheet doesn't indicate a threaded part. I then made a matching threaded plug that was slotted to replace the pressed in one. My thinking was, if I or somebody ever had to get in there again, the snout is now threaded and would be a simple matter to fashion a screw in puller. Again, I have no memory of this(sad) but this is what the photographic evidence tells me.
    Daryl, thanks for your help with this. Its amazing how hard these shafts are to remove, they must have used a good interference fit for all of them. I can see why, considering that the two countershafts that contain the bushings also act as travel stops for the shift fork slider.

    I still have to pull the front countershaft back enough that I can get the gear off. Some all-thread will get that done. Then I will have to devise a way to press it back in position with the gear and collars in place. Maybe I will use the hydraulic press for that, with the headstock sitting on the nose.

    -Dave

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    The main thing that I found was, that you better have the front snout aligned to the shifter bar(hence the alignment jig) "perfectly" as you press it in, because when you go to install the rear snout, the shifter bar can seize between them. And then you will have to pull out the rear snout...again. You now see why I threaded it to make removal easier if need be. You may not have any issues, but I had replaced all the bushings and there was no slop to play with and the shaft would tighten up at the slightest misalignment. The whole reinstall required a bit of finesse, just like the gearbox.

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    I hope I am lucky wrt the reinstall. I did not make a jig, I just measured the offset of the shafts and intend to press them back in place. Since I did not remove the front countershaft, its alignment won't change as long as I get the offset right. Neither bushing is worn enough to warrant replacement, the problem I am addressing is that the idler gear bearing is rough. My first attempt to pull the shaft back failed, due to the all-thread's piss poor thread quality (the threads pulled through the nut plate I made to fit in the gap at the end of the shaft). I retried it with some high-quality threaded stock and it worked fine. Here are some pictures of the front countershaft and the gears, spacers and puller:

    img_0399.jpg


    img_0400.jpg


    img_0401.jpg


    img_0402.jpg


    img_0403.jpg

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    While I am waiting for bearings, I want to get the sight glass installation started. The white disks behind the sight glasses all need repainting. What is the best paint for this? I also need to reseal the left/right/feed selector shaft. The packing inside looks like normal ⅛" valve stem packing, is that the way to go?

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    Quote Originally Posted by rimcanyon View Post
    While I am waiting for bearings, I want to get the sight glass installation started. The white disks behind the sight glasses all need repainting. What is the best paint for this? I also need to reseal the left/right/feed selector shaft. The packing inside looks like normal ⅛" valve stem packing, is that the way to go?
    I used model airplane urethane paint. Seems to have held up for a 18 years but we'll see.

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    I found these shims inside the fwd/reverse shaft cover on the 59 headstock. I guess they were used to fine tune the bearing preset on the 43204 (angular contact bearing) at the inboard end of the shaft. Since I am rebuilding a different headstock, I can't just transfer the shims, I need to know the right procedure to determine the preset. Anyone know?

    img_0406.jpg


    img_0405.jpg

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    I saw this and I thought " I don't remember an angular contact bearing there and shims? I went and looked at the parts breakdown and they show a double ball bearing, not angular. And that certainly looks like factory shims...strange. I found a pic of the rear of the headstock as I was putting it together and although hard to see, looks like a regular ball type bearing to me. I wonder why they did that? Go to the 5th pic on my Headstock rebuild link, it shows the shaft and it you blow it up can make out the bearing. Also, what is going on with that shaft ? Look different than what mine is? I used epoxy white spray paint on my sightglasses, and like Russ, still holding up after 18? yrs.

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    Daryl, the 43204 bearing with the circlip is the one at the opposite end of the shaft, below the tach. You are correct, it is not an angular contact, my info came from an ebay listing. The ND catalog says it is a simple ball bearing that should have no side load. So that makes me think the purpose of the shims was to prevent side load, not add it.

    The bearing at the other end of the shaft is a 5205 double ball bearing. Here is a picture of the shaft from the replacement headstock, along with another from my parts bin. The shorter one is probably from a round dial, that was the only other headstock I have had apart, from a 1942 parts machine. No shims on that one. The upper shaft is identical to the one in the 59.

    img_0407.jpg

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    Cool, I think the shadow on the shaft in the pic, makes it look strange like there is a relief.

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    Here are a couple of pictures for Cal. This is the nosepiece that came with the replacement headstock. The 59 has one like this also. It is a bit different from some others I have seen, it has through holes at 12:00, 4:00 and 8:00, threaded ¼-20, designed for removing the spindle without banging on the rear with a deadblow/soft face hammer or resorting to all-thread. Most headstocks I have seen have three dimples in those locations, but the nosepieces with the holes aren't as common as those without. Maybe it was a new feature introduced when the square dial lathe came out.

    img_0408.jpg


    img_0409.jpg


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