HELP!: Monarch 10EE Jerky/Jumpy/Stuttering Spindle from 0 - 1,400 RPM
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  1. #1
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    Default HELP!: Monarch 10EE Jerky/Jumpy/Stuttering Spindle from 0 - 1,400 RPM

    Need Suggestions on what to Check on my 1969 10EE:

    The Spindle/Motor Drive Stutters/Jerks/Pulses from 0 - 1,400 RPM after that it runs smooth.

    I have replaced all the Module Diodes with new Modern ones.
    I have tried locking out the QSD contact, no change.
    My Tube Filament Voltage is perfect at 2.5volts.
    If I set the RPM at higher RPM’s and stop/start the spindle it smoothly accelerates to the set RPM, no issue.
    Machine is a Factory Badged 460 volt. It is powered by 220Volts single phase connected to a Step Up Transformer which is providing 468volts.

    Any Suggestions on what to check would be appreciated.

    Kind Regards, Ken


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    Is it only jerking and stuttering when you're changing the speed? If so it's possible that there are problems with the armature control potentiometer. You might be able to confirm it by seeing if very fine movements near one of the stutter points can't find a dead spot.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rke[pler View Post
    Is it only jerking and stuttering when you're changing the speed? If so it's possible that there are problems with the armature control potentiometer. You might be able to confirm it by seeing if very fine movements near one of the stutter points can't find a dead spot.

    It does this at any setting from 0 to 1,400. It does it whether the RPM dial is stationary or slowly advancing.

    Could it be the FA Relay?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mac007 View Post

    It does this at any setting from 0 to 1,400. It does it whether the RPM dial is stationary or slowly advancing.

    Could it be the FA Relay?
    I don't think it could be the relay. The thing is - from 0-1400 rpm the armature voltage is changing and the field is supposed to be constant, after that the armature is constant and the field is changing. Having the field or the armature changing outside your control could reproduce the effect you're seeing.

    Could you video the lathe while it's doing this and put the video up on youtube? It might help narrow down the possibilities.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rke[pler View Post
    Could you video the lathe while it's doing this and put the video up on youtube? It might help narrow down the possibilities.

    I have posted the video:
    YouTube

    And here is another video at a higher RPM, SMOOTH.
    YouTube

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    Check your field voltage it should be full voltage at the lower rpm's and that relay should not be kicking in. That relay should only kick in when the motor draws a high current on the armature to apply full field to the motor. Wirh that relay kicking in that tells me that YOU DO not have full field.

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    Quote Originally Posted by labeeman View Post
    Check your field voltage it should be full voltage at the lower rpm's and that relay should not be kicking in. That relay should only kick in when the motor draws a high current on the armature to apply full field to the motor. Wirh that relay kicking in that tells me that YOU DO not have full field.
    Yup, it's the Quick Slowdown Relay pulling in.

    I'd suspect the C3J, the smaller of the tubes in the tube panel.

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    To check this voltage do I probe F2 and 18? Multimeter set on DC.

    Documentation say 120 VDC.

    If its not 120 VDC, what do I check next ??

    Kind Regards, Ken

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    See above your post

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    buy and replace the C3J vacuum tube is what he said

    https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_fro..._odkw=c3j+tube

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    [QUOTE=John S01;3469715]buy and replace the C3J vacuum tube is what he said

    https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_fro..._odkw=c3j+tube[/QUOTE


    I have already purchased and replaced that tube. But no change.
    Not sure how I can tell if the C3J I bought is good, or the one I replaced was good.

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    Have you correctly adjusted the two trim pots in the module, one is for top speed the other is speed compensation?

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    [QUOTE=Mac007;3469897]
    Quote Originally Posted by John S01 View Post
    buy and replace the C3J vacuum tube is what he said

    https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_fro..._odkw=c3j+tube[/QUOTE


    I have already purchased and replaced that tube. But no change.
    Not sure how I can tell if the C3J I bought is good, or the one I replaced was good.
    What is your field voltage? If not up to 120VDC you have a problem with that circuit and the first thing you do is change the tube which you have done but if your 120VDC is not right that circuit is the problem if your 120VDC is there then you can leave that circuit and look for something else. Also check your field voltage on the motor it self that will tell you if the wiring is good.

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    Quote Originally Posted by donie View Post
    Have you correctly adjusted the two trim pots in the module, one is for top speed the other is speed compensation?

    Yes, I have gone thru that procedure and it corrected an OVER-Reving issue I had. When you set the RPM at say 2,000 and started the Spindle it would over shoot to apx. 3,200 and then settle back at the 2,000 setting.
    Now it smoothly accelerates up to the RPM setting without over shooting.

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    [QUOTE=labeeman;3470018]
    Quote Originally Posted by Mac007 View Post
    What is your field voltage? If not up to 120VDC you have a problem with that circuit and the first thing you do is change the tube which you have done but if your 120VDC is not right that circuit is the problem if your 120VDC is there then you can leave that circuit and look for something else. Also check your field voltage on the motor it self that will tell you if the wiring is good.

    Any directions on how / where to check this Field Voltage? Thanks

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    [QUOTE=Mac007;3470060]
    Quote Originally Posted by labeeman View Post

    Any directions on how / where to check this Field Voltage? Thanks
    In the pecker head of the motor there should be wires labeled F1 F2

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    Default Checking Motor FIELD Voltage: VDC

    My Monarch Documentation Package shows the following on the full size wiring diagrams:

    Voltage Table:
    11da4af0-f45d-4f91-883a-1b60a9eb8948.jpg

    Can I check the Field voltage off the Terminal Strip on the module shown below?
    56d13370-463c-4b32-b1a6-7dcafefd759b.jpg

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mac007 View Post
    My Monarch Documentation Package shows the following on the full size wiring diagrams:

    Voltage Table:
    11da4af0-f45d-4f91-883a-1b60a9eb8948.jpg

    Can I check the Field voltage off the Terminal Strip on the module shown below?
    56d13370-463c-4b32-b1a6-7dcafefd759b.jpg
    Yep you can check it there.

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  22. #19
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    Results of Testing:
    First Pic is SetUp for Testing Motor Field From -18 & +F2 per the Monarch Documentation Using the Terminal Strip on the Tilt Out Modular Drive Panel.
    815caa42-b871-4734-8081-6324bf698a9d.jpg
    After Start up Read 118.8 VDC at -0- RPM, and 119.3 at 200RPM
    And 64 at 2000RPM and then after speed it up and back down it was 54.98 at 2000RPM.

    Monarch Says it should be 120 VDC at 200 RPM and 57 VDC at 2000 RPM

    So what should I check Next ??

    Thanks Everyone for you Help

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    Looks Good On the field check. Next check the amps on the motor how much it is drawing when not cutting.

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