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  1. #1
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    Default high RPM question

    OK, dumb question here. Since I have touted my successful Parker 514C 4000 RPM 10EE, can someone give me an application for 3000-4000 RPM turning? So far I have not used the field weakening for any part I have made, but since I have spent the last 15 years using my South Bends I am probably biased toward lower RPMs. Bison rates their cast iron 6" chucks at 3500 and the steel ones over 4000, but I start getting scared way before that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bll230 View Post
    OK, dumb question here. Since I have touted my successful Parker 514C 4000 RPM 10EE, can someone give me an application for 3000-4000 RPM turning? So far I have not used the field weakening for any part I have made, but since I have spent the last 15 years using my South Bends I am probably biased toward lower RPMs. Bison rates their cast iron 6" chucks at 3500 and the steel ones over 4000, but I start getting scared way before that.
    Collet work. Even with only HSS and razor-sharp, high RPM is essential. Carbides and "cousins", even more so.

    Just go and make a hyponeedled dermic, 'er hypodeemic nerdle, er . f**k.. you know what I mean? Drill that f**ker?

    Yah get own to small diameters, that neans short circumferences, and yah need to really push the revs UP to get into a decent "SFM" range to take metal off instead of just bending the work.

    88 cents an hour, I was driving a custom-ordered 8,000 RPM top Hardinge at a mere 5,500 RPM. Makin' #000-124 stainless steel screws.

    I say again, collet work.

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    ...

    No idea about OP ? , but routinely run 4k rpm on cnc lathes so...??
    Last edited by Cal Haines; 08-01-2020 at 06:59 PM. Reason: off topic comment removed

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    I don't like politics so staying out of that.
    but actual running small parts like screw machine parts it is not uncommon. high RPM for aluminum, titanium, steel,
    screw machines use a bushing to stabilize the round stock, which can be centerless ground stock with a hydraulic bar feeder.
    hardinge is a second can run high RPM but not as much SFM, is depends on a few factors type of material, the size of the diameter, and
    surface finish required. never good to run a lathe at full RPM it will ruin it.
    the simple SFM guide line will calculate the correct RPM.

    edit : my experience has been for full CNC with live tools , 8 axis tornos , citizen, & star , I believe max RPM was between 7-10 K. been a while.

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    They changed the machine in 1960 to oil circulation to the spindle bearings, and the machine can be run at 4000 for extended periods without harm.
    The earlier 3 window headstocks the bearings are sitting in oil, and does tend to heat up more. More or less a judgement thing on older machines on how hot is too hot, the headstocks on older machines do run a bit hotter.
    ...
    Last edited by Cal Haines; 08-01-2020 at 07:00 PM. Reason: off topic comment removed

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    Quote Originally Posted by 1953chevB View Post
    I don't like politics so staying out of that.
    but actual running small parts like screw machine parts it is not uncommon. high RPM for aluminum, titanium, steel,
    screw machines use a bushing to stabilize the round stock, which can be centerless ground stock with a hydraulic bar feeder.
    hardinge is a second can run high RPM but not as much SFM, is depends on a few factors type of material, the size of the diameter, and
    surface finish required. never good to run a lathe at full RPM it will ruin it.
    the simple SFM guide line will calculate the correct RPM.

    edit : my experience has been for full CNC with live tools , 8 axis tornos , citizen, & star , I believe max RPM was between 7-10 K. been a while.
    By around 1959 or 1960, it was already very common. Think clocks and watches alone. It just had never been seen in 47 years under OUR roof since founding day. Hearing aids were once the size of a loaf of bread. Then a pack of cigarettes. Then behind the ear. Then IN the ear.

    Our fasteners kept getting smaller. And it was the sort of company that tried to never BUY, always design their own, then make their OWN, rather.

    Hardinge surely knew their stuff when they shipped it to us. I'd been told it was a "special order", but probably NOT "custom built". Just a top-end they didn't YET sell enough of to build in advance.

    Irony of it was that when Herr Pelz retired, Dick T_ the new Plant Manager sent the work to Vallorbs in Switzerland. To whom a #000-124 was no problem at all!

    The finished parts then cost us LESS than we had been scrapping in stainless!

    Not because there was anything wrong with the Hardinge. Because we were trying to thread stainless at 5,500 RPM with our OWN design of #000-124 geometric dies that HAD worked a treat ... on brass and alpaca metal, ONLY!

    We NEVER had used stainess before . .and what we had been making were not as small, either.. #0-80, then #00-90. Geometirc die worked fine in the easier metal, and on leather-belted Iron-bearing South Bend nines at their NORMAL factory OEM RPM range!

    Massive difference when you are starting off that far back of best current practice. Vallorbs wudda thought we were nuts. They would have been correct!

    Dick soon got us ALL the way out of the "make 100% of the parts in-house" mentality.

    That Hardinge was E A Myers, first-ever. And LAST-ever! Sat idle about 11 months out of the year, thereafter.

    Still looked like brand-new when I came back as a Senior Manager, eight years after leaving and about 11 years after I had sat at it for 88 cents an hour.

    Dick had stopped making ANYTHING we could buy smarter. That WAS why they HIRED him!



    Back to THIS situation? "Collet work" is more likely to be at least a millimeter // 40 thou, even more so 1/4" to 1".

    Those smaller sizes are hard to grip directly with average chuck jaws in any case.
    So yah NEED some sort of collet system or another.

    Or even "many". 5C, 2J, ER 20, ER 40, Rubberflex 9XX, and Burnerd multisize.

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    More than 3000 rpm is useful for turning or facing anything made from steel and less than 1" dia. 3" dia for aluminium.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Rand View Post
    More than 3000 rpm is useful for turning or facing anything made from steel and less than 1" dia. 3" dia for aluminium.
    Fair call.

    Note that the 10EE was bumped up to 4,000 as "standard" fairly early - war as it had been - then basically LEFT at that the rest of its service life.

    HBX-360 is around 3,300 RPM top, but that's a nominal 14" as "just about" clears 16" where the 10EE clears 12.5"

    Used Wades go cheaper than used Hardinge, this side of the puddle, if you need a LOT of small stuff. Some figure them the better lathe, too. Schaublin... hardly EVER "cheap"!

    Pushing a BIG lathe can cost more than ADDING a small one? Control feel matters, too.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike1974 View Post
    ...

    No idea about OP ? , but routinely run 4k rpm on cnc lathes so...??
    Good job cal. Maybe you should mod the "other" forum where it goes REALLY ot...


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