You mean my lathe ISN'T supposed to be this loud???
I made the mistake of watching a You Tube video of a more modern 10ee, and it was just so dang quiet! Mine makes all kinds of racket, but has since the day I've owned it, so I didn't really know any better. I've spent a fair amount of time trying to improve the condition of the lathe, but in the last few years I've mostly just used it.
So after finishing up some tube bending work this weekend, I decided I had enough time to take the belts off and poke around.
The machine is loud. It's a '54 MG, and I use an RPC to power it. The MG seems to work fine, and other than the jet engine sound, sounds reasonably healthy. On shut off, it takes forever to slow down, though there is quiet underlying high pitched noise as it slows down - not something I've been too concerned about.
However when the spindle is on, there is a noise that I've never been able to put my finger on. It's loud, but I couldn't tell you what it sounded like, exactly. It doesn't change when the feedscrew or leadscrew are activated, so it doesn't appear to be gear train related. I pulled the flat belt (which needs replacing, apparently), and there was no apparent change in sound (not surprisingly, as gear train previously didn't appear to be involved). I pulled one of the v-belts, which made no difference in sound. So I pulled the last one. When just the DC motor/backgear is running, there is a lot of noise from that apparatus. I would liken it a little bit to the sound of a twin screw supercharger. But while a supercharger sounds cool, this sounds, ehhhhhh not cool. Just LOUD. So I pulled the backgear box, and ran the motor without the backgear, and it is more quiet, but there are still rhythmic noises.
While I was at it, I hand spun the spindle. The spindle spins without any outwardly bad sounds, and will rotate several revolutions before stopping. BUT - it does not feel glass smooth, like a well adjusted plain bearing. It doesn't have any discernible bad regions, and it doesn't feel what I would call gritty, but when spun, it does make an audible sound - it's a light noise. I would also say that I can feel the noise through the headstock when I put my hand on the lathe. It's not much, but if I were stone deaf, I'd be able to pick it up. I haven't put an indicator on it, but the spindle doesn't feel loose, or feel like it shifts when wiggled (for what that's worth, which is next to nothing).
So I think the lathe is noisy because of an accumulation of vibrations from multiple sources. My main concern isn't the noise per se - I've used it this way for years to satisfaction. My concern is that perhaps there are multiple issues that need to be addressed, and I want to know what is a real problem, and what is just to be taken for granted in a machine that turned 60 this year.
Question 1) Based off of my crummy description, does the spindle bearing noise describe bearings in workable shape, or is should they feel like glass and have no sound? If they need work, is there any way to determine whether it is the front or back, without taking the spindle apart? I have never dissembled the spindle in this machine, but I do have the Monarch manual for the machine (purchased from Monarch). I'm not sure if it's a real pain to pull the spindle and the bearings. If this were a reasonable task, could a bearing shop determine the real condition of the bearings?
Question series 2) The next area that really needs attention in my mind is the backgear. I cracked open the box, and found that the dog clutch has some definite signs of slippage. The clutch half attached to the large bull gear appears in decent enough condition (as makes sense as I've read that this is of harder stock I believe?), but the mating half is pretty rough. It probably has some life left, but does anyone have a donor, or have any suggestions for refurbishment? I spent about 8 years as a professional welder (whatever that means...), but I'm not sure how I'd reshape the dogs once built up (if it were weldable), due to the inside corners. If the dog clutch slid off the rest of the part, I could almost see it, (though it would take some figuring). Some of the gears have leading edges that show signs of being roughed up by some of the other gears - perhaps a little whiskey got left in the gear box one night and they started a fight? Could these roughened edges contribute to excess noise, or is this unlikely? Again, similar to the spindle bearings, the big output shaft bearing feels ok but not glass smooth, but when spun, makes some audible noise. Is this in need of replacing?
Question series 3) The motor contributes to some of the noise, I'm sure. It doesn't seem to have any glaring issues, but I am starting to wonder if there is a slight eccentricity to the commutator. As I understand it, if I take the front of the motor housing off, I can slide the armature out, and then the commutator portion can be turned true? If I did that, are the front and rear motor bearings reasonable to either check or replace? I'm assuming those guys wouldn't be prohibitively expensive - I know the spindle bearings are pricey, though I'd probably spring for them if I had to - still cheaper than a new lathe of this quality! As a side note, the motor will make a little buzzey sound that is seemingly random and not very loud - I imagine it might possibly be the sound of a loose bearing buzzing on a shaft. Maybe there are other motor elements that might make this sound? The brush timing is good, and there is no visible arcing at any point. A couple of years ago or so I dealt with that, and it's been fine ever since then.
I realize this is a terribly long post. I'm collecting my own thoughts here as I write. I'd appreciate any feedback from you fine gents.
I made the mistake of watching a You Tube video of a more modern 10ee, and it was just so dang quiet! Mine makes all kinds of racket, but has since the day I've owned it, so I didn't really know any better. I've spent a fair amount of time trying to improve the condition of the lathe, but in the last few years I've mostly just used it.
So after finishing up some tube bending work this weekend, I decided I had enough time to take the belts off and poke around.
The machine is loud. It's a '54 MG, and I use an RPC to power it. The MG seems to work fine, and other than the jet engine sound, sounds reasonably healthy. On shut off, it takes forever to slow down, though there is quiet underlying high pitched noise as it slows down - not something I've been too concerned about.
However when the spindle is on, there is a noise that I've never been able to put my finger on. It's loud, but I couldn't tell you what it sounded like, exactly. It doesn't change when the feedscrew or leadscrew are activated, so it doesn't appear to be gear train related. I pulled the flat belt (which needs replacing, apparently), and there was no apparent change in sound (not surprisingly, as gear train previously didn't appear to be involved). I pulled one of the v-belts, which made no difference in sound. So I pulled the last one. When just the DC motor/backgear is running, there is a lot of noise from that apparatus. I would liken it a little bit to the sound of a twin screw supercharger. But while a supercharger sounds cool, this sounds, ehhhhhh not cool. Just LOUD. So I pulled the backgear box, and ran the motor without the backgear, and it is more quiet, but there are still rhythmic noises.
While I was at it, I hand spun the spindle. The spindle spins without any outwardly bad sounds, and will rotate several revolutions before stopping. BUT - it does not feel glass smooth, like a well adjusted plain bearing. It doesn't have any discernible bad regions, and it doesn't feel what I would call gritty, but when spun, it does make an audible sound - it's a light noise. I would also say that I can feel the noise through the headstock when I put my hand on the lathe. It's not much, but if I were stone deaf, I'd be able to pick it up. I haven't put an indicator on it, but the spindle doesn't feel loose, or feel like it shifts when wiggled (for what that's worth, which is next to nothing).
So I think the lathe is noisy because of an accumulation of vibrations from multiple sources. My main concern isn't the noise per se - I've used it this way for years to satisfaction. My concern is that perhaps there are multiple issues that need to be addressed, and I want to know what is a real problem, and what is just to be taken for granted in a machine that turned 60 this year.
Question 1) Based off of my crummy description, does the spindle bearing noise describe bearings in workable shape, or is should they feel like glass and have no sound? If they need work, is there any way to determine whether it is the front or back, without taking the spindle apart? I have never dissembled the spindle in this machine, but I do have the Monarch manual for the machine (purchased from Monarch). I'm not sure if it's a real pain to pull the spindle and the bearings. If this were a reasonable task, could a bearing shop determine the real condition of the bearings?
Question series 2) The next area that really needs attention in my mind is the backgear. I cracked open the box, and found that the dog clutch has some definite signs of slippage. The clutch half attached to the large bull gear appears in decent enough condition (as makes sense as I've read that this is of harder stock I believe?), but the mating half is pretty rough. It probably has some life left, but does anyone have a donor, or have any suggestions for refurbishment? I spent about 8 years as a professional welder (whatever that means...), but I'm not sure how I'd reshape the dogs once built up (if it were weldable), due to the inside corners. If the dog clutch slid off the rest of the part, I could almost see it, (though it would take some figuring). Some of the gears have leading edges that show signs of being roughed up by some of the other gears - perhaps a little whiskey got left in the gear box one night and they started a fight? Could these roughened edges contribute to excess noise, or is this unlikely? Again, similar to the spindle bearings, the big output shaft bearing feels ok but not glass smooth, but when spun, makes some audible noise. Is this in need of replacing?
Question series 3) The motor contributes to some of the noise, I'm sure. It doesn't seem to have any glaring issues, but I am starting to wonder if there is a slight eccentricity to the commutator. As I understand it, if I take the front of the motor housing off, I can slide the armature out, and then the commutator portion can be turned true? If I did that, are the front and rear motor bearings reasonable to either check or replace? I'm assuming those guys wouldn't be prohibitively expensive - I know the spindle bearings are pricey, though I'd probably spring for them if I had to - still cheaper than a new lathe of this quality! As a side note, the motor will make a little buzzey sound that is seemingly random and not very loud - I imagine it might possibly be the sound of a loose bearing buzzing on a shaft. Maybe there are other motor elements that might make this sound? The brush timing is good, and there is no visible arcing at any point. A couple of years ago or so I dealt with that, and it's been fine ever since then.
I realize this is a terribly long post. I'm collecting my own thoughts here as I write. I'd appreciate any feedback from you fine gents.