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  1. #1
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    Default Jim's 10ee rebuild thread

    Hello Folks,

    I'm a longtime lurker, first time poster. This thread will be about a new-to-me Monarch 10ee, serial number 42984, made in October 1957 and sold to a defense contractor in California according to the records Monarch sent me. I acquired it from a military surplus dealer in Phoenix last month for $3,500 and had it shipped LTL to Atlanta where my shop is. The last 20 miles on a rented trailer were exciting but uneventful.

    Although it was sold as being "in good working order" having (allegedly) come out of the tool room at the Haas factory in PHX, upon receipt it clearly needs to be torn down, cleaned, adjusted and painted. The compound moves but is filthy, and the cross slide only turns a quarter turn in either direction. The gearbox also needs attention as most of the levers there are seized up. A few years ago I picked up a Tree 2UVR and redid it, so this isn't my first foray although it took me more than a year start to finish and I am still far from an expert.

    The goal of this thread will be to share my progress and hopefully get encouragement, as well as take advantage of the tremendous expertise of the enthusiasts here. I can't guarantee all my questions will be novel or smart, but they'll all be sincere and hopefully of use to others considering taking on the same task. I promise to post lots of photos and if anyone wants details etc. as I'm pulling her apart you need only ask.

    She's currently wired (I think) for 3 phase power and I'm going to do my best to keep the WiaD setup as original. Other than the bypassed drum switch under the spindle the drive all looks original to my unexpert eye. I have 220V single phase in the shop and would like to wire it up for that, but that'll be a long time coming!

    The first steps are to tear her down so I can get the blast-able pieces blasted and strip the rest, clean out the sumps, etc. etc. Here we go!

    --jim
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails img_0956.jpg   img_0964.jpg   img_0965.jpg   img_0966.jpg   img_0967.jpg  


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  3. #2
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    Wow. lucky find !

    Look forward to seeing the progress

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    Since the WIAD electronics are single phase , you should have no problems.... but the issue will be at what voltage. If 220/230 , your golden, if 440, will require some transformer work. My 59' was a ex Navy contract machine and had a filament transformer that was re-strapable to every industrial voltage. But most EE's do not have this feature, More detective work will be needed. Remember it's the journey.......

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    Hi Jim I have a WIAD that I striped out to put a 512 ssd in if you need any parts for that post it here I may be able to help you.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jim314159 View Post
    Other than the bypassed drum switch under the spindle the drive all looks original to my unexpert eye.
    That IS "original" AFAIK, and you are well-served, by it.

    Look to the TS end. The "motor switch" control functions are incorporated into the ELSR there, this revision-level. 10EE being only 20" c-to-c. the TS end area is an easy right-hand reach from an operating stance at the carriage. That's actually safer than a left-had reach right in close to where an 11" faceplate might be swinging when not using collets or such.

    That cover plate over the old Motor Switch zone is also a handy spot to put a status indicator lamp or a load meter one does NOT have to reach out and touch - wiring thru the open HS casting under the spindle and out the aft side.

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    TIL! And *that* is why I wanted to start posting here. Thanks, thermite. The placement makes a ton of sense. I guess I just need to source a cover for the drum switch. The ELSR looks like it hasn't worked in a long time, due to the missing shaft and hideous orange paint in the bushings where it used to be. As a result the last owner had a hard switch screwed onto the top of the headstock which was the first thing I removed.

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    Default 9/5 Update

    Hi thread, here are some new photos of the process of pulling her apart. Removed the coolant hose and bootleg exhaust fan, first look at the WIAD components (hand labeled!), got the cover off the gearbox and it looks great inside, astonishingly little wear for being six decades old. A couple things I have noticed:
    1. The pulley that drives the gearbox (I believe) takes power from the spindle but was completely lacking a belt on arrival. Spinning that pulley produces some clunks but no movement in the gearbox. I suspect there is a clutch in the pulley hub or nearby that may have sheared. Can anyone confirm?
    2. The cross slide is jammed up something good. With the compound off I removed the set screw/pin that goes into the nut on the cross slide screw and now the handle turns freely and feels great. Is there anything else that would be holding the cross slide in place like a mechanical lock that's hiding somewhere or missing a lever? A couple of moderate raps from a soft hammer and a lot of Kroil have not budged the slide in either direction. I'm worried its just got years of chips and crud stuck under it, but don't want to bend anything by walloping it with a larger persuader.


    Cheers,
    jim
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails img_0974.jpg   img_0975.jpg   img_0977.jpg   img_0980.jpg   img_0981.jpg  


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    Quote Originally Posted by jim314159 View Post
    Hi thread, here are some new photos of the process of pulling her apart. Removed the coolant hose and bootleg exhaust fan, first look at the WIAD components (hand labeled!), got the cover off the gearbox and it looks great inside, astonishingly little wear for being six decades old. A couple things I have noticed:
    1. The pulley that drives the gearbox (I believe) takes power from the spindle but was completely lacking a belt on arrival. Spinning that pulley produces some clunks but no movement in the gearbox. I suspect there is a clutch in the pulley hub or nearby that may have sheared. Can anyone confirm?
    2. The cross slide is jammed up something good. With the compound off I removed the set screw/pin that goes into the nut on the cross slide screw and now the handle turns freely and feels great. Is there anything else that would be holding the cross slide in place like a mechanical lock that's hiding somewhere or missing a lever? A couple of moderate raps from a soft hammer and a lot of Kroil have not budged the slide in either direction. I'm worried its just got years of chips and crud stuck under it, but don't want to bend anything by walloping it with a larger persuader.


    Cheers,
    jim
    The belt powers the feeds. A set of end-gears, under a cover that on the back of the headstock powers threading. The quick-change gearbox needs to be in feed mode in order for rotating the feed input pulley to have any effect.

    The adjusting nut and pin on the back of the cross-slide, behind the compound, may be too tight and/or the cross-slide gib may be too tight. In any case, you should pull the compound, cross-slide, saddle and apron on any newly acquired 10EE, in order to clean, inspect and lubricate things.

    This album has photos with captions that will lead you through pulling the cross-slide:
    Square-dial by Cal Haines | Photobucket
    Make sure you wind up in a viewing mode that displays the captions. This link should start you in the right place:
    Photobucket

    This thread has information about pulling the saddle, apron, etc.:
    Cal

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    Looks like a fun project. Looking forward to watch and help where I can with the progress. Seems like you have the same problem that I have yet to figure out regarding pictures that are "up right". I've heard (and experienced) this board has some issues properly posting pictures in their correct orientation.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jim314159 View Post
    TIL! And *that* is why I wanted to start posting here. Thanks, thermite. The placement makes a ton of sense. I guess I just need to source a cover for the drum switch. The ELSR looks like it hasn't worked in a long time, due to the missing shaft and hideous orange paint in the bushings where it used to be. As a result the last owner had a hard switch screwed onto the top of the headstock which was the first thing I removed.
    Many of us will be suggesting - as I was about to "just turn a nice disk.." not stopping to think that we may be advising a person who has no other working lathe - his "only" one the very one apart for refurb. Here is where you start making a notebook with a RTWL. AKA "Round Tuit Wish List". IOW cover it with anything that keeps out rocks and dog hair until the 10EE is again functional THEN you can make something nicer.

    While we are at it, it helps all if we use Monarch's part nomenclature and numbers. For which we each invest in the bespoke manual for our 10EE. Contact Monarch Lathe with your serial number, I think it is still but $75. They take the S/N into the records storage and put together a loose-leaf notebook with the correct schematic, anything "special" about the way it was originally equipped, list of accessories it shipped with, and to whom it was sold.

    Good place to add your own "dead tree" notes, too. Computers die now and then.

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    Thanks, Cal! Helpful threads! Appreciate it!

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    In this case I do have another, inferior lathe and will make my own cover! I invested the $75 in a bespoke manual from Monarch, and will post the original sale document when I get back to my shop. My first move was to duplicate it so I have a version free of my greasy fingerprints. Thanks, all, for the help.

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    Little bit of progress today in between conference calls. Cal's photo tutorial was spot on; the gib was bound up in there. Take a look at the photo...unless I'm mistaken the gib broke in the past and was brazed back together! Is it still usable or should I seek out a replacement?

    There's a lot of transverse scoring on the slide ways. You can still make out the scraping marks on both surfaces, but I suspect they'll need re-scraping. The screw and nut look to be in good shape. Thoughts? Thanks!
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails img_0982.jpg   img_0983.jpg   img_0984.jpg   img_0985.jpg  

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    Personally, I would make a new one....but we're jumping the gun here. Clean everything up, blue up the gib on the surface plate to see if it is straight (probably not), then make it so (the hard part), put everything back together and see how much slop the crosslide has. If the gib is salvageable, has some adjustment left, and the crosslide specs out good thru its travel (yeah baby) , do a nice fit/scrape on the saddle/crosslide/gib, flake for oil and you're good to go...Easy Peasy. If not......well... we'll talk about that later.

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    Quote Originally Posted by daryl bane View Post
    Personally, I would make a new one....but we're jumping the gun here. Clean everything up, blue up the gib on the surface plate to see if it is straight (probably not), then make it so (the hard part), put everything back together and see how much slop the crosslide has. If the gib is salvageable, has some adjustment left, and the crosslide specs out good thru its travel (yeah baby) , do a nice fit/scrape on the saddle/crosslide/gib, flake for oil and you're good to go...Easy Peasy. If not......well... we'll talk about that later.
    "Personally", I'd try hard to not have to make a new one. It's not a lot of fun, even though I'd use Bronze. Better, faster, less hassle. CI is a RBK of a PITA, long and thin.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jim314159 View Post
    Little bit of progress today in between conference calls. Cal's photo tutorial was spot on; the gib was bound up in there. Take a look at the photo...unless I'm mistaken the gib broke in the past and was brazed back together! Is it still usable or should I seek out a replacement?

    There's a lot of transverse scoring on the slide ways. You can still make out the scraping marks on both surfaces, but I suspect they'll need re-scraping. The screw and nut look to be in good shape. Thoughts? Thanks!
    I'd replace it. making a proper CI gib isn't that big a deal. Since it sounds like you are planning on scraping (a reconditioning vs a cleanup), the gib is the last part of that process. Scrape, then measure with feeler gauges the gib dimensions needed. The old one might be enough, but really, should be scraped into the newly scraped geometry....and if you're going to all that trouble anyway just start with a new piece of CI.

    I've made new cross screws for them which you might want to do, accuracy comes form the screw not the nut. Me, I'd probably replace the nut as well just because, with very old ratty ones there might be all kinds of crap embedded in the bronze which would lap away at the clean screw...or least that would be my justification.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mcgyver View Post
    I've made new cross screws for them which you might want to do, accuracy comes form the screw not the nut. Me, I'd probably replace the nut as well just because, with very old ratty ones there might be all kinds of crap embedded in the bronze which would lap away at the clean screw...or least that would be my justification.
    You'd not need a LOT of justification. It's a good move. Accuracy/linearity comes off the screw, backlash from the nut.

    Short length of threads in the nut. Much longer length on the screw. The nut wears rather faster than the screw. Just more evenly so.

    PM Member Brian Miller used to offer those as kits, screw and nut. Pretty busy, last time we were in touch, but you could ask him if those are still on his service menu. You won't need to do it twice.

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    Thanks, fellas. I'll reach out to Brian about a new screw and assess based on price; making a new one myself is outside the envelope of my skills. Will defer judgment on the gib until (much?) later in the process.

    I'm working on removing the leadscrew and having some trouble sliding it out of the apron. The leftmost 12 inches or so of it are not threaded and that solid part of the rod is binding on the gears for the thread dial. I don't see anything about that in the Dave/Cal thread that was linked earlier. Any ideas other than starting to disassemble the thread dial? Many thanks.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jim314159 View Post
    I'm working on removing the leadscrew and having some trouble sliding it out of the apron. The leftmost 12 inches or so of it are not threaded and that solid part of the rod is binding on the gears for the thread dial. I don't see anything about that in the Dave/Cal thread that was linked earlier. Any ideas other than starting to disassemble the thread dial? Many thanks.
    If I recall correctly the thread dial can be worked out the top of the apron, or at least loosened by removing the screws around it on the top of the apron.

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    Quote Originally Posted by thermite View Post
    You'd not need a LOT of justification. It's a good move. Accuracy/linearity comes off the screw, backlash from the nut.

    Short length of threads in the nut. Much longer length on the screw. The nut wears rather faster than the screw. Just more evenly so.
    There's always backlash, unless there is an antibacklash arrangement. Backlash is the clearance that lets the parts move. Backlash doesn't matter to operation, but it is a indicator of overall wear, which is I guess why lots get concerned about it. Even wear on the screw is easily compensated for, provided you measure/cut vs relying on the dial for accuracy over a long distance.

    We can disagree that the nut wears faster, experience suggests with a bronze nut that is not always so. See photo, screw is about ready to disappear over a considerable length, nut is far from perfect but is holding its own. Main reason imo for replacing the nut is to make sure you're starting clean without a nut with embedded crap ready to wear the new screw.


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