Last EE10 apron questions (I hope!)
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  1. #1
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    Default Last EE10 apron questions (I hope!)

    The cross slide (right term?) has three bolts, for lack of a better description, that screw in from the top. (See photo.) The far left goes into a T-nut. The middle one in a pin that threads into the cross slide but does not thread into the cross-nut. The one on the right goes through the cross slide and then threads into the cross-nut. Why are all three of these there?

    img_5985.jpg

    I'm guessing the one that does into the T-nut is so you can lock down the slide. And the far right one is needed to move the slide with the nut. But what does the middle one do? Is it for adjusting a clearance? I have the manual, but it is pretty useless as far as telling an owner how to make adjustment.

    OK, one more question, which will forever brand me as a novice. The EE10 I bought had the taper attachment added at some time after the initial build (accord to Monarch.) The piece that holds the cross slide nut and screw simply (called the "draw bar" in the manual)simply lays in the apron. It is not attached at all and can easily slide left/right. There is a large hole on the right side of the draw bar (in the photo) that fits over a equally sized dowel on the taper attachment, and the taper attachment is firmly bolted to the apron. So that is what, I assume, keeps the draw bar from moving.

    img_5959.jpg

    What did a lathe without the taper attachment have to anchor the end of the slide screw? I'm sure this is laughably obvious to everyone, but I haven't found any photos on the Net that show the back side of the apron.

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    Sorry to be short, but yes the one locks the screw, the other two in the nut secure and adjust the nut's backlash. Regarding what goes on without a taper attachment for the screw/draw bar I'm not totally sure, but there must be something there if you don't have a taper attachment.

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    The screws for the 10ee are different depending on whether you have a taper attachment or not. If the you have the attachment then the screw is actually a two part screw that can expand for use the of the taper attachment. The other version is a solid one piece screw to the move the cross slide. This was my understanding after being in your situation which is a 10ee that had a taper attachment at one time but not in my possession. Hope that makes sense.

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    The taper attachment requires a telescoping cross slide screw and rear screw bracket. The operator side looks like this:



    Together:



    I can't immediately find a shot of the rear bracket, but here's an image from the parts sheets:



    The 4 screw holes and 2 pin holes hold and align the rear holder for the cross slide screw. There are a couple of thrust bearings and a nut at the back locking the screw in place. The bar extends past that with a hole that engages the top of the taper shoe and further under the rear of the taper attachment under a chrome plated lock. When you're using the taper you unlock the bar with the chrome plated lock screw and clamp the cross slide to the bar with the nut closest to the operator - the shoe pulls and pushes the bar, moving the cross slide. When you disconnect the taper attachment you relock the bar to the back and loosen the clamping screw.

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    The Monarch manual details how to use the taper attachment. Tighten the clamp bolt and the release the drawbar restraining nut to allow the taper slider to move the cross slide, release the clamp bolt and retighten the drawbar restraining nut to fix the drawbar and allow the hand wheel to move the cross slide.

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    Quote Originally Posted by focusrsh View Post
    But what does the middle one do? Is it for adjusting a clearance?
    "By experiment.." - go ahead and confirm this for yourself, it becomes obvious right away - the unthreaded or "pin" one allows cocking the bronze nut to tighten-up for wear. At least temporarily and on a short section of a worn screw & nut assembly. Run it full-length, find a compromise that doesn't bind, and there will still be higher-backlash sections.

    No idea if that was planned that way for that purpose - or is just a byproduct of making the OEM fitting assembly easier.

    I'd suspect "byproduct", as the 10EE's designers would have been very well justified in expecting those who invested in a lathe of that cost and high-grade to REPLACE both components when worn rather than rely on kludges.

    Such wear being "almost NEVER" evenly-distributed along the full length of the screw, even far more cleverly-complex split, sprung, preloaded, or two-piece nuts cannot be expected to help all that much. I'd class that design a good call as to at least making the simpler nut less-costly TO replace.

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    Quote Originally Posted by focusrsh View Post
    The cross slide (right term?) has three bolts, for lack of a better description, that screw in from the top. (See photo.) The far left goes into a T-nut. The middle one in a pin that threads into the cross slide but does not thread into the cross-nut. The one on the right goes through the cross slide and then threads into the cross-nut. Why are all three of these there?

    img_5985.jpg

    ...
    I explain how this works and how to use them in this post: Adjusting 10EE Crossfeed Screw Backlash

    Cal

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cal Haines View Post
    I explain how this works and how to use them in this post: Adjusting 10EE Crossfeed Screw Backlash

    Cal
    Well done post, thanks. My '42 has the one-piece nut. It probably has no right to be the original one, given its age, so the more complex nut may have vanished early in the War, not to return.

    If anyone has a photo of THAT one, it might see itself rev-engineered?

    Taper Attachments:

    - "factory" ones used telescoping screws on other lathes as well as 10EE. School-shop South Bent of late 1950's vintage had a similar rig.

    - third-party add-on TA's, and some OEM's may just remove the nut attach fasteners instead so they need no special screw when clamped to the taper guide link.

    Downside is the process Cal described in the linked post has to be done all over again after each use of TA to go back to straight turning. Ergo the higher spend for a telescoping leadscrew is usually justified, labour cost wise, and "soon".

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    Thanks to everyone for their posts. That clears up a lot of questions about what the various bolts and pins do.

    My 1942 EE10 has a taper attachment that was added after the original sale. It does NOT have the two-piece telescoping cross-slide screw, and it has a one-piece nut. Go figure. It is 77 years old and has been through many owners.

    I apologize for asking questions that may have been answered before. My problem is that I don't know the names of everything yet, so searches through thousands of posts are problematic. But everyone here seems to be very tolerant of beginners, so again thanks.

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    I can't imagine that the taper attachment (TA) would work very well without the telescoping screw. It's pretty hard to back-drive an ACME screw, that is, make the screw rotate by moving the nut. In fact, there's no direct connection between the TA draw-bar and the top slide. The way things normally work is that the TA shoe moves the draw-bar. The bearing block on the rear of the telescoping screw is bolted to the bottom of the draw-bar, so when the draw-bar moves, the screw moves as well. It's the nut under the top slide that transmits the motion of the draw-bar to the top slide, via the SHCS behind the compound. There's a slot in the top of the draw-bar that allows the nut to move back and forth relative to the draw-bar, as the screw is rotated.

    With the non-telescoping screw, the screw is fixed in place via thrust bearings in the cross-feed dial. The only thing that moves the top slide is rotating the screw to push or pull on the nut and thus the slide. If the top slide were somehow clamped to the draw bar and you disconnect the top slide from the cross-feed nut, then maybe it would work. But I don't know how you accomplish that.

    Have you ever used your taper attachment?

    Cal

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    Quote Originally Posted by focusrsh View Post
    My 1942 EE10 has a taper attachment that was added after the original sale. It does NOT have the two-piece telescoping cross-slide screw, and it has a one-piece nut. Go figure. It is 77 years old and has been through many owners.
    In the second image it looks like the cross slide dial assembly is removed. How did you remove that without removing the screw? The only way I can think of would be to disassemble the dial assembly...

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    Cal et.al.-
    I went back and looked the photos published above and now I see that what I have must, in fact, be a telescopic screw. I see that the end of the screw has a channel, and that is what "telescopes" in and out of the micrometer dial assembly.

    I've attached photos of the taper attachment. The long shaft in the 2nd photo definitely has a home-made bracket on the end. And as far as ever having used it, the answer is no, I'm still trying to resurrect a functioning lathe.

    img_6024.jpg img_6025.jpg

    BTW, the taper attachment is missing the crank/handle/knob that you turn to set the angle. I'll have to make one eventually, but that is the least of my worries.

    The manual has instructions for using the taper attachment with a "Variator". Anyone know what that is?

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    Quote Originally Posted by focusrsh View Post
    ...

    The manual has instructions for using the taper attachment with a "Variator". Anyone know what that is?
    It's basically a little gear driven gizmo that goes in between the taper attachment (TA) and the bed clamp. By using different gear ratios, you can make tapers that are steeper than are possible with the stock TA.

    The late, great Harry Bloom (beckley23) built one. Here's the thread: Geared Taper Attachment(Variator)-My Version

    Here's a thread that talks about it: Taper Attch-Variator

    If you go to the US Patent office website, you can pull up the patent for the Variator, US Patent 2184377.

    Cal

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  16. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cal Haines View Post
    It's basically a little gear driven gizmo that goes in between the taper attachment (TA) and the bed clamp. By using different gear ratios, you can make tapers that are steeper than are possible with the stock TA.

    The late, great Harry Bloom (beckley23) built one. Here's the thread: Geared Taper Attachment(Variator)-My Version

    Here's a thread that talks about it: Taper Attch-Variator

    If you go to the US Patent office website, you can pull up the patent for the Variator, US Patent 2184377.

    Cal
    On spot as always Cal. Thanks


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