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  1. #1
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    Default Looking for10EE Wiring Schematic

    Hello everybody,
    I recently acquired a 10EE (mfg date 8/44, S/N 25871), and I would really like to get a full understanding of the control system of this remarkable machine.

    To get to the point, I'm looking for the complete shematic shown partially in this previous post. Anybody have 1955 Monarch 10EE Schematic? Need Reliance 6299H15C
    It seems to best match the control system I have. Apparently from my research, late 44' was the transition period for control systems on EE's

    (Interesting Footnote)If the previous owner's info is reliable, this lathe was originally bought by the gov't.new in 44' and sent to Los Alamos Lab and stayed there until he bought it a couple years ago. (plausible because his shop is in Albequerque) I don't care either way, it beats the hell out of the
    11x20 Logan it's replacing, even though it was a great little lathe in it's own right too.

    My machine Has a Reliance MG and Motor, The MG and exciter look fairly recently reworked,cleaned,Glyptoled,and painted (they shine like a diamond in a goat's ass compared to everything else) All of the comm's are clean,reasonably bright, and smoothe. The only blemish I find is a couple of wide/burnt out spaces between a couple of the MG comm segments,but they look to be old damage prior to refurb,turning, or whatever caused the MG to be repainted.

    Upon powering it up, everything seemed to work fine no sparking at any of the brushes at all.Only problem was that the spindle motor would not speed up past about 800rpm, and the spindleFWD/Reveerse switch operates backwards(left= reverse,right+ foreward) Max voltages at E1-E2 133,F2-E2 136, A1-A2 280. The FA relay was hanging in. If I forced open the FA relay with a wooden dowel while turning the pots on up past half way, the motor would speed up like it should. Checked all of the resisters as was suggested in another thread, all checked out ok.

    After combing all the posts I could find on the condition, I tried adjusting the spring tension up on the FA relay, which seems to have solved the issue. Now the motor and spindle comes up to speed quickly and the FA relay pulls in on start , then drops out about 1/2-2/3 of the way up to speed. (on occasion it will peck in and out a time or two on the way up from dead start to 1750rpm (spindle speed) with an 8" chuck on, but drops out before set speed is reached as I believe it should.

    Even though my machine is a Round Dial, it has what appears to be the early 1950's generation of MG controls. the DC control box is a Cutler Hammer #C292885A31 115/230 volt 12.3 Amp DC control.

    Sorry for the crappy pics,best I could manage right now.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 140.jpg   137.jpg   141.jpg   135.jpg   139.jpg  


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    Another couple pics138.jpg136.jpg

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    Monarch can send you a book about your machine.

    Hal

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    Quote Originally Posted by Brianison View Post
    Hello everybody,
    I recently acquired a 10EE (mfg date 8/44, S/N 25871), and I would really like to get a full understanding of the control system of this remarkable machine.

    To get to the point, I'm looking for the complete shematic ... Apparently from my research, late 44' was the transition period for control systems on EE's

    ...

    Even though my machine is a Round Dial, it has what appears to be the early 1950's generation of MG controls. the DC control box is a Cutler Hammer #C292885A31 115/230 volt 12.3 Amp DC control.

    ...
    August of 1944 was very near the end of round-dial production. I think they were already shipping square-dials by that point, but I don't really recall.

    You need drawing EE-3216. Send me an e-mail and I'll hook you up.

    I written several posts that explain how the various relays on the DC panel function. I don't have time to find them for you right now, but if you search on my name and "DC panel" you'll find a lot of information about how things work.

    The Cutler-Hammer AC contactor is not original.

    Cal

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    agreed, the 3 phase motor contactor (starter) has been "spliced" into place. Not the worst thing to worry about.

    The DC control panel is common and actually looks to be in pretty good shape from the pictures and probably readily fixable. If your MG was recently serviced you should be smiling!

    Your problems with speed control and issues with relays sounds like something that happens frequently and has been discussed a lot around here. Probably some old oil goo sticking some contactor.

    Read, learn, clean, and tune, BUT keep your fingers WAY OUT of the dc control panel when it is power up!

    Its a good long process to make it work well and even longer to make it look fresh. Be sure to rip the apron off at some point and carriage and go through all that! It will be needed.

    Brian

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    Thanks everyone for all of the replies, and help with the schematics.

    With the help of all the other control threads here, I was able to cram enough knowledge to get a pretty good idea what was going on with it.

    Actually all I had to do to get it running right again was to adjust the spring tension on the FA relay and now everything seems fine.

    After using it for a job I had to get out the last couple days, I just have to say GAWD I LOVE THIS LATHE!

    I didn't realize that the Cutler Hammer panel wasn't original, I've seen a lot of pics of other EE's that had what appeared to be that same panel. Was it OEM to any 10EE's or an aftermarket thing?
    Since this thing was in gov't service most of it's life, it wouldn't surprise me that things were "swapped" over the years for the sake of expedience in the maintenance dep't.

    I will Definitely have to go through the apron, Right now it doesn't seem to be oiling,so at the very least I'll need to deal with that.

    I have a download of the 1942 manual that's on Vintagemachinery.org , from what I've read on other threads here, it appears that is the only one Monarch offers for the round dial machines. Is that correct, or do they have year-specific manuals for the round dials? I would probably be willing to buy one if they did.

    Cal, I sent you an email, let me know if you didn't get it and I'll try again.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Brianison View Post
    I have a download of the 1942 manual that's on Vintagemachinery.org , from what I've read on other threads here, it appears that is the only one Monarch offers for the round dial machines. Is that correct, or do they have year-specific manuals for the round dials? I would probably be willing to buy one if they did.
    I've seen 3 "round dial" manuals when I include the Sunstrand hydraulic drive version. The later versions are a 1942 and one printed quite a bit later by Monarch as it has area codes (but in a form indicating that they were somewhat new, so likely late 50's?). I just checked and the hydraulic one has a print number indicating a date of 1955.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Brianison View Post
    ...

    I didn't realize that the Cutler Hammer panel wasn't original, I've seen a lot of pics of other EE's that had what appeared to be that same panel. Was it OEM to any 10EE's or an aftermarket thing? ...

    Cal, I sent you an email, let me know if you didn't get it and I'll try again.
    With that build date, I'm pretty sure that the DC control panel is original and the MG also appears to be the type used on square-dials, which I would expect for such a late round-dial. It's the AC motor starter on the back of the headstock that was added at some point. There are a few cases of older round-dial that went back to Monarch for rebuilds and left with square-dial DC panels and MG sets.

    I just finished sending you the wiring diagram via e-mail.

    As far as I know, Monarch does not customize the documentation packages for round-dials; all MG machines get the same wiring diagram, regardless of what DC panel you have (and there were about five different panel versions, plus ELSR and rapid reverse options). They do customize the square-dial docs to a certain extent, but I don't think that's all everyone thinks it is either. For example, if you have a square-dial, they send headstock drawing 202.268, which is for newer machines with a single oil sight glass in the headstock, regardless of what headstock you have. I keep asking, but nobody seems to have gotten the three sight glass headstock drawing. Don't get me wrong, I'm all for supporting Monarch, but I think they could do a lot better with their documentation.

    Cal

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    Thanks everyone for the help. I'm having an engineer friend print me a copy of that schematic on his large format printer.

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    You broke my heart on that one. I went down and looked at it. Ugly-ass paint, but otherwise a good-looking and smooth-running machine well worth the effort to restore. She-Who-Must-Be-Obeyed wouldn't let me go any higher on the bidding, however. It's up there with my all-time regrets. I hope you enjoy having it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Briney Eye View Post
    You broke my heart on that one. I went down and looked at it. Ugly-ass paint, but otherwise a good-looking and smooth-running machine well worth the effort to restore. She-Who-Must-Be-Obeyed wouldn't let me go any higher on the bidding, however. It's up there with my all-time regrets. I hope you enjoy having it.
    Where are you in NM? I could keep an eye out here in the Albuquerque area. That being said I don't expect to see any more at the Bentley auction.

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    Thanks. I work at Sandia, and plan to retire in a few weeks (after 38 years). I keep an eye out, and have picked up a couple of machines that are fine for my modest needs. Honestly, as much satisfaction as I would get from restoring one, a 10ee would be way too much machine for me. It didn't keep me from wanting that one real bad, though, maybe as much for the history as anything. Los Alamos was only doing one thing in 1944. Coming up to speed (so to speak) on the old electrics would keep the blood pumping to my brain for a while longer, too.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Briney Eye View Post
    Thanks. I work at Sandia, and plan to retire in a few weeks (after 38 years). I keep an eye out, and have picked up a couple of machines that are fine for my modest needs. Honestly, as much satisfaction as I would get from restoring one, a 10ee would be way too much machine for me. It didn't keep me from wanting that one real bad, though, maybe as much for the history as anything. Los Alamos was only doing one thing in 1944. Coming up to speed (so to speak) on the old electrics would keep the blood pumping to my brain for a while longer, too.
    I retired a couple of years ago, last job was consulting with some of the 5500 orgs at Sandia (I say "retired" carefully as I still consult with a former employer as they find it hard to get cleared folks with my background). I live down in Peralta, if you ever need help with a 10EE or steam engine.

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