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Moderation question - input requested

Cal Haines

Diamond
Joined
Sep 19, 2002
Location
Tucson, AZ
I would like input from the members of the forum about what you want from your moderator.

As most of you know, we had a bit of a flame war erupt last weekend, f-bombs were dropped, and I locked the thread until I could react to it in some fashion. One member has (at least stated) that he was leaving the forum as a result of my locking the thread. The question is, what should I do in that situation?

What I can do is:
  1. Nothing
  2. Send a PM (Personal Message) to the party(s) involved
  3. Post something to the thread, asking for more civil discourse
  4. Edit the thread to remove the offending language
  5. Lock the thread
  6. Delete the thread
What I can't do is ban a member from the site or the forum. Even if I felt that a member should be banned, I don't think that I have any way of getting Don (or someone with super-moderator powers) to do so, short of posting something "off topic" in the General forum.

Personally, I don't think that profanity or flame wars adds to a discussion and may well cause people to stop visiting the forum. My instinct in this instance is to lock the thread long enough for people to cool down, edit the thread to clean up the harsh language, then unlock it (if appropriate). But I recognize that an overbearing moderator can be a serious problem as well and I don't want to be that sort of moderator. What say you?

Please respond to this thread or by e-mail/PM if you have any suggestions or concerns regarding this issue.

Cal
 
Personally, I think that out-of-control posts should be locked, but not deleted or edited. Gives people a chance to see what good of the thread may be there; and also why it ended up locked. Last post in the thread might be yours, explaining why you locked it. If the topic is of interest, someone can start a new thread.

If it's the same person perpetually going from discussion to personal attacks . . . a warning or two then banned could be in order. That would and should be very rare, but Don would likely back you up.

My 2 cents. Lots of other ways to keep the discussion civil, including some of your suggestions for active moderation.
 
I would like input from the members of the forum about what you want from your moderator.

As most of you know, we had a bit of a flame war erupt last weekend, f-bombs were dropped, and I locked the thread until I could react to it in some fashion. One member has (at least stated) that he was leaving the forum as a result of my locking the thread. The question is, what should I do in that situation?

What I can do is:
  1. Nothing
  2. Send a PM (Personal Message) to the party(s) involved
  3. Post something to the thread, asking for more civil discourse
  4. Edit the thread to remove the offending language
  5. Lock the thread
  6. Delete the thread
What I can't do is ban a member from the site or the forum. Even if I felt that a member should be banned, I don't think that I have any way of getting Don (or someone with super-moderator powers) to do so, short of posting something "off topic" in the General forum.

Personally, I don't think that profanity or flame wars adds to a discussion and may well cause people to stop visiting the forum. My instinct in this instance is to lock the thread long enough for people to cool down, edit the thread to clean up the harsh language, then unlock it (if appropriate). But I recognize that an overbearing moderator can be a serious problem as well and I don't want to be that sort of moderator. What say you?

Please respond to this thread or by e-mail/PM if you have any suggestions or concerns regarding this issue.

Cal

Given you've only locked the one contentious thread recently, or perhaps "ever"? There's no mystery.

What you have already done has worked well-enough. An invitation to war was issued. We'd read the book. We'd seen the movie. Nobody went to the party.

There was - and remains - a fairly instructive and well-balanced discussion between and among the value of fast mechanical clutch reversing, mechanical kick-out aids, and the unavoidably "somewhat" slower ability to rapidly brake and reverse an electric motor without risk of damage to it. Likewise more than one proponent of simply bypassing the need altogether.

That value remains, locked or otherwise, sanitized of but two posts, or otherwise.

Sanitizing has been needed - and applied - in some forums that routinely degenerate into ad hominum "wars". The Monarch forum has not generally been one of those. The thread in question did not make it so, if only because the mischief was simply not responded to.

And yes, if need be for the good of PM, Don will certainly back up his moderators in the service of the responsibilities they have undertaken - or direct his support staff to do so.

You are "assets" to the virtual community. Important ones, the lot of you.

It behooves those among us too lazy to want to take-on that tough job to at least support you - all of you - even over the odd thread or post we might not fully agree on.

And we shall.

Do what you think best, this thread or any other.
 
I am on another forum if that language were used he would have been baned, post deleted or given a time out (baned for a cooling off period) but in either case the post deleted or edited there is no room for adults to flame each other. A note that the post was deleted is preferable to seeing that language.
 
I am on another forum if that language were used he would have been baned, post deleted or given a time out (baned for a cooling off period) but in either case the post deleted or edited there is no room for adults to flame each other. A note that the post was deleted is preferable to seeing that language.

I have free and paid memberships at dozens of online forums. Many of them would have issued a temporary ban for offending users. Some also “bleep” the foul language (replace words with asterisks).

Foul language and heated posts do not add to the conversation.

There was also reference far past events that caused the loss of participation from Scott @ Monarch; if member behavior indeed caused the OEM to cease formal or informal participation, that is a significant loss and a failure of our entire community.

Ryan
 
My thoughts are not really worth a private message IMO.

About a moderator not being able to ban posters? That’s usually the first & fastest line of defense for spammers IME, so how is that done? It’s generally understood in the workplace a supervisor or foreman has the ability to “fire for cause” (safety, health of the company or illegal activity), and only upper management can hire back if the cause wasn’t there.

The forum intent is to allow people to interact with the end effect of sharing knowledge to improve outcomes. Forums also have a social component, every college fraternity or fraternal order requires the candidate to promise/swear, among other things, to “treat others as they would wish to be treated”. A failure to do so is taken seriously. Fraternities ARE “elite”, you don’t join, you are “made” a member & then you have to behave… The bonds are for life.

Personally abusive language is just ugly, making your point without name calling will lead to vigorous debates without hard feelings. All good then.

Good luck,
Matt
 
Apparently I missed the excitement (darn!) but IMO use your best discretion.

It seems many times posts get out of hand. I have repeatedly been called a liar (without proof), accused of wanting to murder children because I disagreed with a poster's political positions, called stupid, ignorant, a Luddite, a paid Russian troll, and any number of insults intended to prevent me from posting opinions. I have also been called a stalker because I checked out posters who appeared to not be what they claimed as "creds" for their views. Although I learned the real identities of some posters I have NEVER revealed their identities as I do not believe that is either moral or wise and might incite actions by others.

Now, in light of all the above, IMO most of it is the kind of interchange that often occurs when people hold opposing views and is part of such discussions. However, I do think such exchanges can quickly get out of hand and my advice in such cases is ...

At first delete the offending sentences and replace with "DELETED BY MODERATOR FOR PROFANITY (etc.)" I don't believe it is proper to delete a members words without showing that it was done and why.

If the behavior is repeated I say delete the entire post with a warning added in addition to the standard "DELETED BY MODERATOR" and after that banned for a period of time, and eventually for keeps if the behavior persists.​

PM is a very useful forum and generally stays on course but IMO in some of the technical discussions a few posters tend to disparage alternative methods of doing the same work. There is ALWAYS more than one way to do something and to dismiss other ways does a disservice unless the method suggested is dangerous or otherwise bad.

Just my opinion.

Scott
 
The perception of anonymity brings out the worst in some of us. I used the brand name of my Americas most popular lathe when looking for help in the 'General ' area. I was ( very pleasntly) informed that because the PM is aimed at professionals and is sponsored by large companies, 'hobby level' lathes must not be mentioned. I have no problem with that. Foul language surely is in the same league?
Thanks for being a moderator. I am sure it is a miserable task trying to keep everyone happy.
 
Apparently I missed the excitement (darn!) but IMO use your best discretion.

It seems many times posts get out of hand. I have repeatedly been called a liar (without proof), accused of wanting to murder children because I disagreed with a poster's political positions, called stupid, ignorant, a Luddite, a paid Russian troll, and any number of insults intended to prevent me from posting opinions. I have also been called a stalker because I checked out posters who appeared to not be what they claimed as "creds" for their views. Although I learned the real identities of some posters I have NEVER revealed their identities as I do not believe that is either moral or wise and might incite actions by others.

Now, in light of all the above, IMO most of it is the kind of interchange that often occurs when people hold opposing views and is part of such discussions. However, I do think such exchanges can quickly get out of hand and my advice in such cases is ...

At first delete the offending sentences and replace with "DELETED BY MODERATOR FOR PROFANITY (etc.)" I don't believe it is proper to delete a members words without showing that it was done and why.

If the behavior is repeated I say delete the entire post with a warning added in addition to the standard "DELETED BY MODERATOR" and after that banned for a period of time, and eventually for keeps if the behavior persists.​

PM is a very useful forum and generally stays on course but IMO in some of the technical discussions a few posters tend to disparage alternative methods of doing the same work. There is ALWAYS more than one way to do something and to dismiss other ways does a disservice unless the method suggested is dangerous or otherwise bad.

Just my opinion.

Scott
You haven't missed anything the post are still there. POST
 
I would like input from the members of the forum about what you want from your moderator.

Please respond to this thread or by e-mail/PM if you have any suggestions or concerns regarding this issue.

Cal


I support your actions. Stay professional (as you did). When you lock a thread, put a mod post stating that action (as you did). Perhaps you could consider adding a specific reason why it is being locked. Many forums have a code of conduct and quoting that code can be useful. Ex: the thread is being locked for foul language or personal attacks or whatever. That way, the other members of the forum can learn from the mistakes of others and not behave in that manner. Also, leaving the thread, and not deleting it, allows for others to see what happened. Censoring the foul language is a forum/website choice and I support either choice (leave the language or censor it). On censoring: I would urge you to consider censoring over deleting foul language or otherwise. If the information is completely removed, then someone who reads the thread 5 years later may not understand what happened and get the wrong impression.

To be honest, I stopped reading the thread when it started to get ugly. I don't have time for that kind of stuff.
 
Profanity doesn’t make your argument valid; it just tells the other person you have lost your class and control.
 
I appreciate the input from everyone that replied here or otherwise contacted me.

I edited the clutch thread to remove the profanity and off-topic material. The thread should be open again (the moderation tools aren't working correctly).

Cal
 
(the moderation tools aren't working correctly).

Back when.. I had to doo that, the site tools were browser-sensitive. Mine worked better in Apple's Safari than anything else.

Which was a bit unsulting, as I had coded the extensive modifications to both of the sites involved meself (Drupal/PHP, Zope/Plone with Python), and done it on FreeBSD or OpenBSD!
 
Back when.. I had to doo that, the site tools were browser-sensitive. Mine worked better in Apple's Safari than anything else.

Which was a bit unsulting, as I had coded the extensive modifications to both of the sites involved meself (Drupal/PHP, Zope/Plone with Python), and done it on

FreeBSD or OpenBSD!

Its normal for a professional machinist to cuss out a fraud like the termite, understand, how much sacrifice is made not only to learn the trade but also acquire the equipment, to see a scammer like the termite sully the trade we have worked hard in.
The fact is the termite has not and does not produce any work, only bullshit.
The problem with most all of the pros leaving is, there is no one that even can describe how to cut threads on a Monarch EE other then colt 45.
I find it interesting that the termite is always claiming there is a better machine then the EE.
Just as I stated earlier, the termite with his forum hogging and lying has driven most pros away.
Do you all really believe the termite ran 50" Niles lathes in 1959 cutting threads with the "Kiss method"? I have never fucking heard of that bullshit term.
Oh, I do remember the termite bombing scott@monarch with his bullshit Parker PooPoo drive with the ripple filter installed in his ass, and the negatives toward the EE machine in general. Since there has never been any moderation on this forum starting with the wimp peterH, simply no backbone then and now.
So, it appears this forum is strictly for the armature, no room for discussion of the more modern machines because they are too expensive for the termite, also no discussion on how to actually work and maintain the much better machines, then the old round dial clunkers. Termite interrupts every discussion.
Perhaps I will check back in 6months and see if this forum has had enough of the termite fraud, as for now I certainly do not have the time to waste, as I have in the past.
Now Termite, I will advise you never to mention my name again, that is what brought me back for this reality check.
Ya well, we cuss a lot in the hydraulics end. I know the amateurs have act offended and try to pretend they are gentlemen.
 
Robert Heinlein said,

"Moving parts in rubbing contact require lubrication to avoid wear. Honorifics and formal politeness provide lubrication where people rub together. Often the very young, the untraveled, the naive, the unsophisticated deplore these formalities as "empty," "meaningless," or "dishonest," and scorn to use them. No matter how "pure" their motives, they thereby throw sand into machinery that does not work too well at best."

One day a girl I know who worked in the produce department of a grocery store was looking dejected. I asked what the trouble was and she replied that she couldn't handle the way people treated her. While I was there a customer came up. The conversation went-

"You have zucchinis?"

Smiling and indicating a shelf, "Yes sir, we have two kinds right here."

"Gimme two of those."

Girl hands him the zucchinis and he walks away without another word.

It wouldn't have cost a bit to be polite about it and would have made the girl's day so much pleasanter.

I first did my time in a machine shop the summer of 1951 and between that and hanging around with a few bikers, there can't be many words I haven't heard or used on occasion. I graduated from amateur status a long time ago.

It is simply a matter of creating the world I want to live in, and I do not wish to live in one where people are rude and abusive.

Cal, you have my vote.

Bill
 








 
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