monarch 10ee 1961 need schematic serial44892 manufacture date 4-61.
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  1. #1
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    Default monarch 10ee 1961 need schematic serial44892 manufacture date 4-61.

    Anyone have a schematic for 1961 10ee?
    i am having electrical issues.

    first of all

    when i turn on the main switch, the little green light on the start button takes about 45 seconds to light up. is this normal?
    after I press the green start button and a contactor pulls in but doesn't stay pulled in. what is the normal sequence of operation?

    spindle will not start. previous owner said the tubes may be bad.

    before i order replacement tubes i want to make sure they are the problem. thanks for your assistance
    Thanks
    Rich

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    I think that is a works in a drawer. There is a timer that will not let you start up until the filaments in the tubes warm up 60sec when the timer has expired you get the green light and you can press the power up button and a contactor pulls in so far so good. If there is no field voltage for the motor the contactor will not stay pulled in I suspect that you do not have field voltage. The field loss relay is by the Large Transformer in the back of the drawer.

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    Not a WIAD. i had one of those. this is a modular. makes sense that the green light comes on after the tubes warm up. there are two thyratrons. wondering what to test to see if the tubes are working. thanks

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    Nope there are 3 the two big ones are for the armature and the small one is for field the two big ones will not cause the relay to drop out but the small one will if it is bad I do not know where the field loss relay is on a modular but that relay is on the modular to. Your chances of it being that tube is 70% being bad.

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    Have you checked to see if the spindle lock is on ?

    Hak

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    Modular drive machines do have the tube warm up timer and it's typically about a minute to warm up the tubes before the machine can be run.

    Like Hal said - check the spindle lock. Also check the back gear solenoid and the solenoid that locks the front compartment where the tubes are- both can be problematic; all three are easy to check. Fuses, including the field fuse and circuit breaker on the fold down board are also simple and easy to check.

    Think the labeeman is correct, good chance the field loss relay is not closing due to a weak or bad C3J.
    FWIW, best to get the electrical print for your particular machine from Monarch, there were revisions to the drive over the years.

    Does your machine have the ELSR option? Knowing this would help us help you in diagnosis.

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    I dont have the ELSR option.
    the solenoid that keeps the front door locked is not working. one of the wires is disconnected and i dont know on which terminal to land it.
    the 3amp fuse on the fold down board was blown but i replaced it.
    the spindle lock is not engaged but i did not check the switch for continuity
    where is the back gear solenoid located?
    thanks

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    Here's an excerpt from the modular schematic showing the control circuit:



    The power contactor is in the middle and all the switches are for the Spindle Lock Switch (sls), THermal Sensor (ths), 1 Minute Timer (1TR), Interlock Switch on fwd/rev contactors (ils), Field Loss (FL) and Overload (OL).

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    Quote Originally Posted by lectrician1 View Post
    where is the back gear solenoid located?
    thanks
    It's inside the machine, next to the right side/front idler pulley for the 2) main drive vbelts- it's at the end of the speed control knob shaft.

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    thank you sir for the schematic

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    If I manually hold in the power contactor, then move the drum switch to forward, the spindle should start. Is that correct?

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    Default Should the blower be blowing when the main power lever is on?

    Should the blower be operating when the main power lever is on?

    Thanks

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    Quote Originally Posted by lectrician1 View Post
    If I manually hold in the power contactor, then move the drum switch to forward, the spindle should start. Is that correct?
    If you have field voltage yes but if you do not I would say no

    Quote Originally Posted by lectrician1 View Post
    Should the blower be operating when the main power lever is on?

    Thanks
    Yep

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    update
    Cooling fan is working when the power is on
    spindle lock is operating correctly
    worklight is operating
    doorlock solenoid is operating

    back gear solenoid has 373ohms across the coil but it doesn't pull in
    not sure of how it is supposed to operate


    major issue- i turn on main switch, green light comes on after 45 seconds, press the button and the 3amp fuse blows on the front drop down panel.
    so there is a short in the circuit that the start button closes.

    i called Monarch today and ordered the manual and schematics but it will be some time before they arrive.

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    The back gear solenoid function is to keep the back gear from being shifted above a certain RPM, not certain, but I think it's around 250rpm.
    Default condition of that solenoid when the drive is energized and the motor not spinning should be "plunger retracted".

    FU1 is supposed to be 5 amps per Russ' schematic above, if you only have a 3A fuse there that's probably why it's blowing.

    Check the THS (thermal sensor) for a short.

    It's a fair amount of time, but it's a good idea to check every wire and every terminal screw- the machine and wiring is pretty old and it's possible something got changed through the years in an attempt to fix it, or that connections have worked loose, or the wire has fatigued.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Colt45 View Post
    Check the THS (thermal sensor) for a short.
    I'm pretty sure the thermal sensor is a fuse that opens when it's hot. So a short would be the normal state. If I recall correctly it's normally up on top of the DC panel cavity? Harry had to run his down and has a post on it somewhere.

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    the thermal sensor seems to be working. the wire insulation was cracked so i replaced them.

    the 5amp fuse is working. there is a 3amp fuse right next to it. that is the one that is blowing. i haven't found it on the schematic yet to see what it controls.

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    Quote Originally Posted by lectrician1 View Post
    the thermal sensor seems to be working. the wire insulation was cracked so i replaced them.

    the 5amp fuse is working. there is a 3amp fuse right next to it. that is the one that is blowing. i haven't found it on the schematic yet to see what it controls.
    There is a 3 amp fuse in series with the field of the motor in your field control circuit.

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    Picture of circuit.20200625_143517.jpgRect 3 would e suspect for a short.

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    yes that is exactly what is shorting. i didnt have any 3a fuses so i put a 15 amp glass fuse in there and it actually blew the glass apart


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