Monarch 10ee breakers size - Page 2
Close
Login to Your Account
Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12
Results 21 to 26 of 26
  1. #21
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Arizona
    Posts
    3,381
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    675
    Likes (Received)
    405

    Default

    Agree. I was about to suggest that he measure the current on both legs and see what's going on. That motor should have about a 14A rating at 240V. Even if it's running at full load with a power factor of 0.8, that's still only about 20A. A typical 30A breaker can take 40A for a minute or more before it trips. So something weird is going on. Maybe a bad breaker or bad run caps?

    pier, Do you have access to a clamp-on ammeter? Are there fuses in power connection box on the back of the machine? Does the main AC contractor have overload protection?

    Cal

  2. #22
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Virginia
    Posts
    22,941
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    7561
    Likes (Received)
    7110

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Cal Haines View Post
    donie, thermite, PLEASE lay off the bickering! You're not helping the community with this stuff.

    I went through the thread and deleted the off topic comments directed at each other. I saved what I could of donie's shop photos to Shop Tips and Project Photos

    I don't have time to sift through your posts and try to save the things that actually apply to the topic at hand, so when I see you guys going at it, I'm just going to delete the posts.

    Cal
    Thanks, Cal, sorry for the side-show - tried to mark those so outright deletion was faster.

    I've now put him on ignore, so the photos have ceased messing up the screen as well as the text.

    Back to the topic and the STRONG evidence from the report that this has NOT happened when running under loads light, medium, or heavy if even Pier has any truly "heavy" turning, so far.

    Pier had told us the problem is both random AND intermittent, and occurs ONLY while at idle when the MG's own current flow would be de minimus.

    That almost shouts out loud "external problem source" to me, and I hope Pier has gone scouting and even already found the perpetrator. De-powering various "suspects" to see if the problem at the 10EE's MG ceases whilst some other thing is off should be easy and "done already".

    'Scope needed only if the source is in a nearby home or shop - even just the other side of a demising wall in a row of shops.

    My small Campbell-Hausfeld air-compressor does nearly the identical dirty HERE, not to the machinery, but to same-family Square-D "QO" breakers sometimes, and GFCI outlets LOTS of times if I have it at work where I don't have a non-GFCI protected outlet.

    It is always on shut-off, never run nor startup, and only on "some" shut-off cycles, maybe one in five or eight - never all.

    I "should" fix that right ON the device - it is cheap and easy - but have been too lazy, given I plan a new compressor anyway.

    20CW

  3. #23
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Country
    CANADA
    State/Province
    Ontario
    Posts
    26
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    0
    Likes (Received)
    0

    Default

    Hi CAL

    Right now I don't have a clamp Amp-meter that I could trust. My previous B&K 350B that I bought on ebay gave me wrong readings, so I am basically ignoring its existence.

    First, I want to point out that I did perform the single phase conversion on this lathe because I don't have three phase power here at home. I moved the lathe a couple years ago from the shop (in there we have three phase power), and then decided to re-conditioned, so I could use it at home for small projects. The conversion process was easy and smooth, including taking the stator winding out of the generator casing. That process also gave me a chance of determining the state of the wires and coils (which was very good).

    I was contemplating of buying an RPC to power up the lathe, but then decided not to, given that, "That's another unit running" and therefore, not being 100% efficient, will demand a bigger breaker circuit in the panel, and currently the electrical panel it's over his design capacity, so I need to be careful of what is being used at home before I turn the lathe on.

    The power quality in my neighborhood is very clean otherwise, there are no shops or other industries around my street that could make the grid fluctuate that much.

    Currently I am strongly suspecting that it is the breaker, but I don't want to replace it, unless I know for sure that it is the problem. This is the reason that I came to the web site to ask what size of breaker you require after the "Single Phase Conversion". I wish that some other people that perform that conversion will come forward and give their 2C. From my calculations, the 30 AMPs should be plenty, but who knows. In the shop when we had the three phase, the breaker size was 20AMP-3PH.

    Cheers
    Pier

  4. #24
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Country
    CANADA
    State/Province
    Ontario
    Posts
    26
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    0
    Likes (Received)
    0

    Default

    Hi CAL

    One more thing that I should mention:

    What if the "SUPCO APR5" fails to disconnect the START capacitor, or it intermittently closes the contact due to some unknown reason, would this be a cause for over-current?

    I kind don't trust the source of where I bought that relay (again, on ebay) so that is another of my suspects.

    Is there a way to test the SUPCO APR5 relay by itself?

    Is the adjustable voltage on the SUPCO relay the rms or peak voltage? Currently it is set to 250 Volts (because the instructions said to do that).

    At one time I did notice the voltage across both the START and RUN capacitor to be very high, even after 30 seconds after power up, but I did not pay to much attention then, since things were running. But now, I find that to be abnormal because the voltage on the START capacitor should be zero after power up.

    I do trust the capacitors because they are from a local vendor.

    In my case I use 2 X 100uF-400VAC caps for the START (in parallel) and one 60uF-400VAC for the RUN cap.

    Cheers
    Pier

  5. #25
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Virginia
    Posts
    22,941
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    7561
    Likes (Received)
    7110

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by pier View Post
    Hi CAL

    Right now I don't have a clamp Amp-meter that I could trust. My previous B&K 350B that I bought on ebay gave me wrong readings, so I am basically ignoring its existence.

    First, I want to point out that I did perform the single phase conversion on this lathe because I don't have three phase power here at home. I moved the lathe a couple years ago from the shop (in there we have three phase power), and then decided to re-conditioned, so I could use it at home for small projects. The conversion process was easy and smooth, including taking the stator winding out of the generator casing. That process also gave me a chance of determining the state of the wires and coils (which was very good).

    I was contemplating of buying an RPC to power up the lathe, but then decided not to, given that, "That's another unit running" and therefore, not being 100% efficient, will demand a bigger breaker circuit in the panel, and currently the electrical panel it's over his design capacity, so I need to be careful of what is being used at home before I turn the lathe on.

    The power quality in my neighborhood is very clean otherwise, there are no shops or other industries around my street that could make the grid fluctuate that much.

    Currently I am strongly suspecting that it is the breaker, but I don't want to replace it, unless I know for sure that it is the problem. This is the reason that I came to the web site to ask what size of breaker you require after the "Single Phase Conversion". I wish that some other people that perform that conversion will come forward and give their 2C. From my calculations, the 30 AMPs should be plenty, but who knows. In the shop when we had the three phase, the breaker size was 20AMP-3PH.

    Cheers
    Pier
    Pier. the 30A is more than adequate. On single phase a 20A is not quite enough - the MG's AC motor still has "inrush" S-H converted or not, and still looks much the same as any other motor starting load.

    If we had "all the numbers" you might need a 25.7 A for startng, but only a 16.4 A for running, etc. but 30A is fine. An SSD drive can actually be run with only a 15A breaker.

    OTOH.. this may sound bass-ackwards.. if you have even a 20A two-pole, do try that..

    If the 30A breaker is doing an internal stir-fry it will usually fail the "sniff test". Apply the nose when it is OUT and and and .. no longer on the leads, either.

    If the 20A does not trip-out at idle, THEN go and find a new 30A, and DONE.

  6. #26
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Arizona
    Posts
    3,381
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    675
    Likes (Received)
    405

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by pier View Post
    Hi CAL

    One more thing that I should mention:

    What if the "SUPCO APR5" fails to disconnect the START capacitor, or it intermittently closes the contact due to some unknown reason, would this be a cause for over-current?

    I kind don't trust the source of where I bought that relay (again, on ebay) so that is another of my suspects.

    Is there a way to test the SUPCO APR5 relay by itself?

    Is the adjustable voltage on the SUPCO relay the rms or peak voltage? Currently it is set to 250 Volts (because the instructions said to do that).

    At one time I did notice the voltage across both the START and RUN capacitor to be very high, even after 30 seconds after power up, but I did not pay to much attention then, since things were running. But now, I find that to be abnormal because the voltage on the START capacitor should be zero after power up.
    If the potential relay fails to disconnect you'll know about it pretty quickly. Electrolytic starting capacitors can't survive very long when connected to line voltage.

    I don't see any discharge resistors on your capacitors:


    When the potential relay opens the starting capacitors will sit there with whatever voltage they had at the moment they are disconnected from power. You might want to put a 100k Ohm, 1 Watt resistor across the terminals of the start caps to slowly discharge them. (Note, it will take the resistor over a minute to discharge the caps). Check the voltage across the caps once they've had time to discharge. If you're still seeing line voltage there, then something is wrong.

    You should buy or borrow a clamp on ammeter to check the currents. You can get one from Amazon or HF for under $30 that will be good enough for what you need.

    Quote Originally Posted by pier View Post
    I do trust the capacitors because they are from a local vendor.

    In my case I use 2 X 100uF-400VAC caps for the START (in parallel) and one 60uF-400VAC for the RUN cap.

    Cheers
    Pier
    Peter's Stillman conversion diagram calls for three run capacitors (Cr and Cpf are run caps):

    What diagram did you use to wire up your system?

    Cal


Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
2