Monarch 10EE Contactor and Heater

I recently acquired a 1943 Monarch 10EE. At some point, someone replaced the original contactor and heater. Unfortunately, the new contactor is at least an inch taller than the original, and the cover plate won't fit on top of it. To remedy this, he had placed some 1/2" shims between the cover and the lathe. Additionally, although the new heater has a reset button, it is not the correct size/shape and location to fit into the reset hole in the cover.

When I first took the cover off, I found swarf in with the contactor. This concerns me. Swarf and 220V don't mix.

I want to replace the contactor, at minimum, and possibly the heater. I looked around on this forum, and the original contactor seems to have been a Cutler Hammer 9586. I looked on eBay, and this seems to encompass older, open type contactors and more modern contactors.

Does anyone have the right part numbers for the contactor and heater, or could someone recommend a more modern contactor and heater that will fit in the housing?

Thanks in advance for any help. If someone has these left over from a VFD refurb that they'd like to sell, I'd be interested.

10k said:

I recently acquired a 1943 Monarch 10EE. At some point, someone replaced the original contactor and heater. Unfortunately, the new contactor is at least an inch taller than the original, and the cover plate won't fit on top of it. To remedy this, he had placed some 1/2" shims between the cover and the lathe. Additionally, although the new heater has a reset button, it is not the correct size/shape and location to fit into the reset hole in the cover.

When I first took the cover off, I found swarf in with the contactor. This concerns me. Swarf and 220V don't mix.

I want to replace the contactor, at minimum, and possibly the heater. I looked around on this forum, and the original contactor seems to have been a Cutler Hammer 9586. I looked on eBay, and this seems to encompass older, open type contactors and more modern contactors.

Does anyone have the right part numbers for the contactor and heater, or could someone recommend a more modern contactor and heater that will fit in the housing?

Thanks in advance for any help. If someone has these left over from a VFD refurb that they'd like to sell, I'd be interested.

View attachment 63210

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I'm using an Allen Bradley AOD709, size 0. This is what they look like.

They fit fine but the reset buttons aren't in the right spot. I've never had mine trip and neither will you unless you are really doing some extreme machining, so don't worry about the reset buttons. Heaters are easier to get for these than they are for the C-H contactors.

Here's what the C-H contactor looks like:

I don't remember if it's considered a size 0 or size 1, sorry.

This is basically the right contactor, mounted in the upper right corner. It even has a 220 coil:
Cutler Hammer 9586 H4598A A C Control Panel Open Type 95629 | eBay
The buy it now price about the coil alone sells for.

Here's the right set of heaters for 240 (grab them quick, they are hard to find):
T3 6 1 New Cutler Hammer 9586H1375B Thermal Overload Heater Coil T3 6 | eBay

You can find more information here:
http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/monarch-lathes/10ee-mg-440-220-conversion-checklist-237118/

Cal

I finished replacing the contactor. I used a contactor and overload that were very close to the original, varying only by the stenciled information. They were new old stock, never used, and were mounted on a back plate by Cutler Hammer to control an air conditioner. I was lucky to find them on eBay for $40 shipped.

The contactor is a Cutler Hammer Bulletin 9586-H4598A "open style". It was fitted with a 240V coil. I don't have a separate part number for the overload/heater assembly.

I had to buy the heaters separately, as none were fitted.

The motor was rated at 13.2 A full load current, so I selected a Cutler Hammer H1372B, which is rated for 12.6-13.8A. It's actually good for 125% of this amount. Again, I found them new old stock for $10.65 shipped on eBay. Cal agrees that the H1375Bs he mentioned above are probably too large.

Here's a section of Cutler Hammer Publication 7105 dated October 1942:

FLA Number
6.29-6.93 H1365
6.94-7.60 H1366
7.61-8.39 H1367
8.4-9.1 H1368
9.2-10.1 H1369
10.2-11.3 H1370
11.4-12.5 H1371
12.6-13.8 H1372
13.9-15.0 H1373
15.1-16.3 H1374
16.4-18.3 H1375
18.4-19.9 H1376
20.0-22.1 H1377
22.2-24.1 H1378

The picture shows the wiring. Single phase line voltage comes in at the top to L1 and L2, with the ground terminated to the lathe frame. I ran a wire to L3, even though it's not connected to anything in the power cord junction box. (Future planning) There's a static converter wired in at the bottom of the contactor. The motor is connected to the bottom of the overload. I used the back plate that was on the contactor, and it's a bit different than the original backplate. I mounted the overload on an aluminum block of the appropriate thickness to get the reset button to go through the hole on the lathe cover plate.

10k said:

...

The picture shows the wiring. Single phase line voltage comes in at the top to L1 and L2, with the ground terminated to the lathe frame. I ran a wire to L3, even though it's not connected to anything in the power cord junction box. (Future planning) There's a static converter wired in at the bottom of the contactor. The motor is connected to the bottom of the overload. ...

View attachment 64573

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Nice, neat wiring job!

Is the incoming power the cable that comes in right below the red reset button in the photo?

When you say "Single phase line voltage comes in at the top to L1 and L2" are you referring to the L1 and L2 terminals labeled in the photo?

I would like to see the wiring diagram for the phase converter.

Cal

VERY neat, indeed.

The specific design of the 10EE's main power controller section (that which is contained within the enclosure immediately behind the headstock) assumes a Cutler-Hammer Size 0 magnetic motor starter, although others, including Allen-Bradley, are occasionally found.

Unlike later, perhaps more modern starters, the Cutler-Hammer starter has four identical main contacts, one of which is utilized in the "three-wire control station".

Additionally, the overload section is completely separate from the contactor section. These two sections are interconnected using straps, yet the output of the main contacts and the input of the overload section are accessible.

This distinction facilitates the two main applications of the Cutler-Hammer starter:

1) the M-G application takes the coolant pump accessory power before the overload, therefore the pump is not protected, whereas the M-G power is taken after the overload, therefore the M-G is protected * , and

2) the WiaD application takes the coolant pump accessory power after the overload ** , therefore the pump is protected, whereas the WiaD power is taken before the overload, therefore the WiaD is not protected by the starter, but the WiaD has its own, independent overload protection, which is found on the DC Panel (which Cutler-Hammer also supplied).

* Therefore, the overload heaters must be sized for the load presented by the M-G, which is about 6.2 HP.

** Therefore, the overload heaters must be sized for the load presented by the coolant pump, which is about 1/3 HP.

The Line Power comes in at the middle penetration. It's easier so see in this view. The four wires are red, white w/blue tape, black, and green. The green wire is mostly hidden and terminates to the lathe. The wires are connected at the top of the contactor, from left to right:

L3 - red (future use if I ever have three phase power)
L1 - white w/blue tape
L2 - black
Auxiliary contacts

The wires that come from the rightmost penetration are from the static converter. The three wires are black, white w/blue tape, green w/red tape. I ran SO cable since there's no rigid conduit in my machine, so I couldn't get the colors I'd like. They're connected at the bottom of the contactor. The capacitors for the static converter fit neatly into the (formerly empty) coolant pump.

The converter is nearly complete, and I'll start another thread giving the details of the construction and wiring.

Necro-posting here, but this seems to be the best place for this info. I found a complete chart for the Thermal overload ratings.

Adding to the old post myself, Here's a CH9586 information sheet I managed to dig up via google for a Size 2 starter, with yet different heater coil information than the list 10k posted, and the picture a2lute posted



The picture is kind of hard to read at the resolution the forum scales it to, plus it's not a great photo to begin with.
There is some information above the coil table that reads:
"The table below is for use with 40C rise motors. Coils selected from this table will allow a maximum of approximately 125% of rated motor current. If protection is wanted at 140% of rated motor current use one size larger heater coil than as listed. To find the approximate tripping currents of the heaters, multiply the minimum currents by 1.25."

The relevant section for the 10EE would seem to be as follows:

Motor Amperes - Heater Coil No.
9.96-11.0 - H1370
11.1-12.1 - H1371
12.2-13.4 - H1372
13.5-14.6 - H1373
14.7-15.8 - H1374
15.9-17.6 - H1375
17.7-19.0 - H1376
19.1-21.0 - H1377
21.1-22.7 - H1378
22.8-24.8 - H1379
24.9-26.7 - H1380

Below the table it reads "Each of these numbers, prefixed by 9586, is the catalog number of a package of two coils."

The "Size 1" CH contactor in the 10EE should be good for 27A continuous based on the information I dug up about NEMA size ratings.

I'd also like to note that the coils in my 230V factory wired machine are H1374.

Figured I'd chime in with my findings, I've been searching for the heater coil information and between this post and the picture I've found seem to have discovered that there are some minor inconsistencies in the information about these coils. But I think between all the information here in this post we can reasonably determine appropriate sizes for anyone modifying or restoring the electrical system in their machine.

Side note, does anyone here know if these CH overloads will trip with just one "leg" or heater coil used, or if they require both to be in circuit, and as such wouldn't the current rating of the heater coils then be directly correlated to current flow across both "legs"? Obviously both would have to be wired for 3 phase configurations, but for anyone converting their machine to single-phase power and using the original contactor and overload combination, that could potentially present an issue whereby the original machine wiring in my machine as well as others as Cal has noted in other places on the forum has the contactor coil across L1 and L3, but the overload is on L1 and L2, so if one were to hook up to single phase with only one side of the overload in play, to avoid changing the way the contactor coil is powered, then only one side of the overload is wired up, and perhaps it wont trip at all, or will trip with different current characteristics than if both sides of it are wired up. I only bring that up here because this post is the one that came up the most during my information hunt, and I still don't have a clear answer on that scenario myself.