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Monarch 10ee - Electrical issue

gregfortin

Aluminum
Joined
Nov 20, 2016
I recently bought a 10ee made in 1963. The original electronics were removed during a government upgrade in 1993. When I purchased it, it was running and wired to 440 volts. I want to run it with 220 v in my shop. Will this be a difficult conversion. Thanks, Greg. EC0CC916-52EF-4FA1-9A58-90D59A849E6B.jpg
 

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I have seen a few Gov owned repowered machines, Thermite mentioned Fincor, another is Sabina.
Sabina had a couple of conversions, I believe both are 3phase only.
I f you open the doors and take some more photos, the drive conversion could be identified.
 
Yes, it has a Fincor 2600 unit. It has 3 phase 440 input, into a large transformer on the backside (appears to be single phase) with an output of 220 to the 5 HP DC motor. There is coolant pump( 1/10 HP) that is wired for 3 phase. I’ll send some pics later. Thank you.
 
The Sabina solid state drive was the most expensive 1990s aftermarket conversion at a numbing $8000 + shipping the machine to and from California!
Back then a non working EE could be that much, if you wanted one of these machines running and sitting in your shop, back then would be likely over $15000.
With no suitable VFD, or helpful forum, that was a real problem.
 
10ee retrofit electrical system

More pics of the retrofitted 10ee
 

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Congratulations.

I bought my '51 from the same 'batch' in 2016. Mine is a '51. The Navy had them rebuilt in the early 90's. Soon after they were donated to this educational non-profit. They skipped the 'rusting in a field' seasoning step that most surplused MIL machines follow.

We're starting to get some critical mass here from that group of Navy rebuilds - there is at least one more member with a Defense Logistics Agency rebuild.

I inspected and ran your lathe under power in 2017, when it was SOLD along with 11 others at an online-only auction. It seemed I was the only person doing serious inspections. There were many shenanigans in that auction, and some of the 10ee's were never picked up.

Your machine likely has the same drive as mine and most of the others I inspected, a Fincor 2601. It will run on single phase 220. It is RPM limited due to insufficient voltage. Though the quality of the wiring and conversion are really nice and will be a huge help if you upgrade. When I inspected the lathes I found one that had schematics of the conversion, including the wiring numbers. I took photos but they aren't great. It'd be nice if someone who has originals could get scans made.

The beds these lathes were ground during the rebuild and they are Flat. When I first measured, I thought my indicator was not setup correctly. I'm not sure what else the rebuild touched. Seems like a Navy rebuild would not spare expense and might include bearings throughout, etc. I did not come up with much when I searched for more info on the rebuild, and did not try and contact DLA.

The saddle on mine rides low due to wear and is now touching the flat way. You should check for that by removing the front flat wiper and measuring the clearance with feeler gauges. The 'quick' fix is to remove the saddle and machine additional clearance. You may also need to compensate for a lower apron height in relation to the leadscrew, etc.

In conversations with some management at the non-profit, it was apparent they lacked maint staff. That is typical - grants are available for hard goods but seldom for maint. Plan accordingly.

As a quick near term step, I'd suggest removing the wipers and getting any trapped chips and gunk out, and make sure there is lube in there before moving the carriage around much. You'll probably need to remove the carriage for an R&R of the lube system and to clean off old coolant. You will be at serious risk of Shipwrights disease.

My inspection notes for your machine mention an unknown headstock noise. I wondered if there was a spindle issue, though there could be many other causes. I think it has been years since they used these machines at the facility. How are the headstock lube levels? I would not run it at all until you are sure there is oil in the bearings - they may be completely dry.
 
Your transformers may be the same as mine.


Control panel guts, drive enclosure transformer and tailstock compartment transformer:

Edit: fix photos
 

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Last edited:
Another DGSC EE Project rebuild August 1993, sn 37887 built 1954.
Fincor and KB drive controllers.
Here is a pic of the transformer in it.
 

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Several of these converted 10ee's showing up other than the 4 at the recent auction.
I have the 1954 one with ELSR. 3hp original motor.

Here is a photo of the control box.


Well, can't post it.. the file is too large [too high resolution] I'll have to work on it later.

Maybe Cal can post the schematics I sent him on this thread?

DualValve.
 
What is actually more useful "early days" at least, is a Bill Of Materials. Schematic logic plan follows what those goods dictate.

Team effort. PM doing what PM does best.

Next up, is HOW they interfaced a mag-prox PULSE wheel pulsetrain to DC Drives that usually expected an Analog signal LEVEL off a tachogenerator at "X" volts per 1000 RPM of slope.

I'll try and get my schematic photos together. A while back I'd begun cleaning them up, correcting perspective etc. Still hoping someone can scan originals. It is pretty neat that the guys who actually did the rebuilds are named on the badge. It would be nice to get in touch and get more info on the history of these rebuilds - how many were done, what was done, etc.

Looks like we are now up to 5 PM members with DGSC conversions. Probably time to start a thread as a respository of general info that is specific to those machines.

Not the best photos, but this is the tach setup on my machine. I recall there is a module in the control box to condition the signal. And there is always the question of what happens if the tach signal is lost - does it go overspeed?
 

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10ee

New pics of 10ee
 

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From my quick read of the Fincor 2601/2602 characteristics, the major difference is increased amperage capacity to handle up to 5 horsepower.
There were a couple of other slight differences. but my quick read was 1200+ miles ago, and three days of minimal sleep ago.. So my recollection is definitely foggy.

The 'GregL and GregF show' will get scans of the schematics we have, And I hope if good scans are sent to Cal, that he can work some magic and post .pdf's of them for others to copy and use..

Both machines will most likely be set up to run on 220v single phase. They will be operating at less than full power, but neither of us are doing major 'hogging' of parts on these lathes.. We both have large, gear-head engine lathes for making big, blue chips.

Glug: please PM me or email me, I'm wondering where in Michigan you are located?

More later..

DualValve
 
The options that could be more interesting are those for contactorless operation, dynamic braking, and handling of reversing differently.

Yes on the usability, as-is. If ever you want more at some future date, changing to a full-power drive won't be at all difficult.

Not hard to have BOTH, either. Final-drive motor only has four wires, after all. My "transfer switch" a common Hubbell twist-lock!

My 37887 built 1954 has a Fincor 2601A, which per the manual has dynamic braking and Armature Contact Reverse. Motor is 3 HP Reliance Model 14DT, 690 rpm to 2400 rpm. BTW, the OD of the Motor mounted pulley is 8 inches. I believe the KB-240D is used for Field Control?? Having the schematics would be great. Was told machine has an unknown issue, and I have not put power to it yet.

Bob
 
KB-240D are a whole line - some are 4Q drives, usually just short of 5 HP capable, but limited to 180 VDC out.

I have one or two of the 4Q units in the nice NEMA-4X cases.

Similar to the Fincor line and their options, one would need to know "which" 240 D.

KBIC-240D model 9464J with resistor for 2 HP resistor installed. This controller is in addition to the Fincor 2601A.

Both are attached to the Field Loss Relay Board.
 
GREG, I made that exact inquiry of Monarch, and the attached is what they sent me.

Apologize, just realized yours was Modified, so these instructions probably are not useful. :(
 

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