Monarch 10EE JFK Precision Collet Closer

I have been on the hunt for a collet closer for my machine, it seems there are three options, neither of them good.

1) Cobble one together over a few years using parts off of eBay in unknown condition

2) But one from Monarch, about $5000

3) Hope someone sells a solid unit of off their machine

This lead me to give JFK Precision in Burbank a call, Jose told me they still build collet closers and would be happy to build me a new unit for my 10EE.

The kit would include the following:

Collet Closer Assembly
5c nose piece (Jarno to 5c)
Universal bracket to install onto back of machine ($45 extra)

The unit would be supplied with a nut that replaces the factory nut on the rear of the machine, once the nut replacement/spindle is installed, the hub attached to it is indicated in and locked in with three bolts. The collet closer then slides into hub and is reacted using the universal bracket.

I spoke to Monarch, they said the nut does not affect bearing preload, it only keeps the pulleys sinched up, so installation should be easy.

I took some picture of a unit they had there, this is NOT the Monarch unit. Jose said they can usually hit .0005" or better for run-out on the nose piece.

The price would be $1300, but we may be able to get some group pricing. Anyone else interested?

Nobrakes,
Royal makes a lever action collet closer that looks a lot like that unit. They will cut the tube to the right length when you order it. I bought one twenty years ago for my 10EE and it still works fine. I do not remember the cost from back then.
spaeth

Good to know there are other options on the market, but based off the price they sell some of their accesories for I think that is unattainable for most hobbyist, which most of us our.

And don't get me wrong, I am all for 100% USA made products, even if pricey(JFK unit is also USA made).

Monarch used a variety of ways to secure the lever end to the back of the machine. Early machines had a iron upper part of the rear cover, that is much more ridged then the normal cast aluminum upper rear cover. The last version, a pad was machined on the back side of the headstock, and a heavy piece of cast iron bolts there and curves around the standard upper rear cover, the lever is secured with a pin. the lever closer pictured would have to be modified to fit on the machine.
The later lever closers were made by Royal. I noticed Royal does not list closers anymore.
Keep this in mind, The royal closer uses a part that slips into the rear of the spindle with a snug fit, often that part is missing on used ones. Another point to consider is...Â… a hand wheel closer will be more accurate, or produce a part with less taper on the end, its not a whole lot, but things tend to add up.
And last, a closer with a too long of tube, can be shortened.

The 5c system is really old, and more solid locking collet systems have pretty much taken their place. The problems I have encountered are mostly related to defection from tool pressure.
The set up on this lathe has an adjustable for run-out 5c nose piece, and a hand wheel closer for increase torque to help with deflection.
I built this system 22 years ago, I would probably go with another system now, but it did work, and most important made money.


These parts were all simple to make...on a ee, of course.

my recent experience with JFK precision was not good. ordered a MT5 5C sleeve, the external taper was way off. they said I must be mistaken. I wasn't. It cost me 2 days of screwing around, and I didn't have a usable product in the end. sent it back for a refund, but it was a big waste of time.

Royal doesn't make the adapters any more, and sold off most of the stock years ago.

luckily, I found a Royal MT5 sleeve in a machine about to be scrapped.

I was lucky and got this adapter on Ebay for less than $100 and with $20 worth of metal I have this assembly. Less than 0.0005 runout on the (non-Chinese) 5C collets I checked.

Aso, the Sjogren 2J closer that came with my lathe along with the Hardinge 2J collets are also less than 0.0005 runout, and the 2J closers on Ebay are reasonable.


5C collet closer - 10EE

Another option is to have JFK make a drawbar/handle wheel system, it should be much more economical.

i sent you a text about a 10ee lever collet closer that i have and willing to sell

lectrician1 said:

i sent you a text about a 10ee lever collet closer that i have and willing to sell

Click to expand...

Thanks Rich, look forward to photos

I agree with Thermite’s summary, although i am not a big fan of Bernard Multi-Fix and wouldn’t rank it first. I have a standard hand wheel 5C, which is the backup system, but it came with the lathe. The collet system I use constantly, and which ranks #1 in my book, is the Sjogren 2J hand wheel collet chuck and Hardinge 2J collets, which go to 1 ⅜” which is the internal capacity of the spindle. There are also oversize pot chucks and closers available for 2J. In addition to the extra capacity 2J has over 5C, the collets are considerably beefier. When I was buying 5C collets to fill out that set, I discovered that a lot of the used collets available are sprung, but that seldom was the case for 2J. Over the years I have bought lots of 2J collets on Ebay, usually for $8 or $9 each, and now have a set from 1/32 to 1 ⅛ by 64ths, and by 32nds to 1 ⅜. I have never seen the 64th sizes above 1 ⅛ for some reason. I also have metric 2J’s by .5mm from 1mm to 25.5mm. The point being, think about the end system you are looking for, not just the start.

If you do buy a Hardinge Sjogren 2J collet chuck, don’t be surprised if the accuracy you want is not what you got. I posted years ago about the need to fit D1-3 tooling to your lathe spindle. The acid test for D1-3 tooling is whether it properly centers on the spindle taper. If you release the three cam nuts, the tooling should stay on the spindle, held by the taper. It should take a slight hit with the palm to release it. Most of the D1-3 tooling available on the internet does not fit well. Even brand new D1-3 tooling may not fit well. As Thermite points out often and much more eloquently than I, you have a lathe, use it.

Dave

I was hoping someone with a collet closer from the factory could chime in on the installation, below are some photos of the unit that Rich has offered to sell me. It has what looks to be a factpry bracket, but the bracket doesn't work with a collet closer. It has a shop made bracket that was bolted to the headstock casting.

How does the actual collet closer mount to the spindle? My lathe has a large ring nut at the very end, do the assembly "click" into place of the nut? I would imagine it needs to center itself over spindle.

Normally there's a part that mounts to the end of the spindle and the closer indexes into this part. For the JFK the mount has a set of holes and the closer a pin that indexes into one of them, for the Monarch closer it's closer to a gear on the spindle end. No idea what a Royal closer would take, and looking at the 4th image doesn't clue me in much - maybe that tab thing on the center right indexes into a gear like structure?

You might want to send a PM to lathehand. He has a collet closer that mounts to the rear of the headstock with the same bracket shown in your photo. I don't know if it is a Royal, you'll have to ask him. You also might want to contact Monarch. I'm guessing that Monarch sold the Royal collet closers at some point, since they started modifying the headstock for that rear mount back in the 50's, so maybe they have the missing part.