Monarch 10EE Spindle Leak
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    Default Monarch 10EE Spindle Leak

    Hello community please advise. Do the 1960’s era 10EE’s have any sort of Spindle Seal? Mine is leaking around the Spindle. The machine had sat idle for a few years before I obtained it. Any help on what if anything could cause the leak?

    Thanks in Advance.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mac007 View Post
    Do the 1960’s era 10EE’s have any sort of Spindle Seal? Mine is leaking around the Spindle. The machine had sat idle for a few years before I obtained it. Any help on what if anything could cause the leak?

    Thanks in Advance.
    Where "around the spindle?"

    One wonders if a reservoir is over-filled? Worse? Not even with the correct lube? RAINWATER could be a disaster?

    Or mayhap some "thoughtful" soul tried to smother it in WD40, now escaping?

    The "proper" lubes are all nearly transparent. Check your sight glasses for dirty crud. They are SUPPOSED TO BE "transparent" as well!

    Few are - unless recently renewed.

    "Normal" loss exists. But goes mostly into the interior.
    "First", anyway.


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    There is a "labrinth" type seal on the spindle, which is really no seal at all, but a trough around the spindle to catch the oil. There should be a paper gasket between the spindle flange plate and front of the headstock. There is a small hole at the bottom of the flange that allows overflow from the spindle bearing compartment to drain into the chip tray.

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    In the 1960s the headstock oiling was changed, old style has 3 oil windows, later style has only one window. In both older and newer headstocks the center oil level is below the spindle bearings, if oil pours out, the level is too high.
    There are other conditions specific to older or newer style, I would have to know one oil window or two.

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    Quote Originally Posted by donie View Post
    In the 1960s the headstock oiling was changed, old style has 3 oil windows, later style has only one window. In both older and newer headstocks the center oil level is below the spindle bearings, if oil pours out, the level is too high.
    There are other conditions specific to older or newer style, I would have to know one oil window or two.
    THANKS everyone, I believe the prior owner simply overfilled

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mac007 View Post
    THANKS everyone, I believe the prior owner simply overfilled
    One of the primary "suspicions", yes, but... with WHAT is it over-filled?

    One of my 10EE arrived missing its oil filler plugs. Somewhere in its prior life, some thoughtful soul had put something else in their place.

    D'you know the kits they sell for attaching "stuff" to concrete or drywall?

    Yeah. Plastic expanding screw anchors. The green ones.

    Welll. it may have "seemed like a good idea at the time", but they don't seal anything when just parked in a hole, no screw, etc.

    I don't think they seal anything even when they, not I, are "screwed", actually.



    So if "sitting idle for several years" happened to be "out in the rain.." Some of that overfill could have been rainwater?

    Or the wrong lube. Or just OLD lube.

    If you have not already done it by your own hand, I'd call it prudent to drain, flush, inspect as best you can, clean or renew sight glass, refill 'er yerself with the proper lube.

    Then you know.

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    Hello all, UPDATE, turns out someone had simply overfilled the reservoir

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    I think its been discussed here several times about the 3 window headstocks suddenly dropping oil level in the front bearing window, or slowly leaking down. My 1951 MfG model EE, does it all, it can hold the oil level for months, suddenly drop oil level, and slowly leak it. It always ends up in the center compartment.

    On the single window headstock, the spindle bearings oil from the trough at the top, oil gets to the trough by climbing up the small gears that drive the alternator that powers the tachometer-"the later tachometer shows rpm with the machine in reverse" the trough has a sharp edge, that scrapes the oil off the side of tachometer drive gear. Amazingly simple, no pump, and depending on some adjustments can provide too much oil. The basic adjustment is using a feeler gage to determine the gap between the gear and the trough, "closer would provide more oil".
    When the spindle is reversed on the "one oil window headstock" machines, the tachometer gears pick up more oil then when in forward. I am mentioning this because if the machine has sat for some time, it is beneficial to warm up the machine by running it in reverse at around 300 rpm for a few minutes, this will flood the oil trough, and get some oil to the end gear train, if you want to cut some threads right off. Also, during warm up, place the gear box in coarse feed, that will kick the oil around in there.
    And, after all that nonsense, back on the topic, because the single window headstock machines pick up more oil in reverse, if they are not ran forward again, a little oil may leak out the front of the spindle cap....

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    Quote Originally Posted by donie View Post
    In the 1960s the headstock oiling was changed, old style has 3 oil windows, later style has only one window. In both older and newer headstocks the center oil level is below the spindle bearings, if oil pours out, the level is too high.
    There are other conditions specific to older or newer style, I would have to know one oil window or two.
    Donnie, Its a One Window, 1969 year.
    Just drained the old oil from Spindle chamber. and replaced with the Mobil DTE 24 Hydraulic oil. The old oil was a fairly dark Reddish color. This new oil is basically Clear. What I have read about this Mobil DTE 24 is it is excellent.

    One thing I can’t be sure of is the oil level. The Sight Gage is stained pretty dark, so hard t see oil level. I am hoping the new oil will perhaps clean the window over time if I’m lucky.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mac007 View Post
    Donnie, Its a One Window, 1969 year.
    Just drained the old oil from Spindle chamber. and replaced with the Mobil DTE 24 Hydraulic oil. The old oil was a fairly dark Reddish color. This new oil is basically Clear. What I have read about this Mobil DTE 24 is it is excellent.

    One thing I can’t be sure of is the oil level. The Sight Gage is stained pretty dark, so hard t see oil level. I am hoping the new oil will perhaps clean the window over time if I’m lucky.
    That will not happen as the old oil has turned to varnish.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mac007 View Post
    Donnie, Its a One Window, 1969 year.
    Just drained the old oil from Spindle chamber. and replaced with the Mobil DTE 24 Hydraulic oil. The old oil was a fairly dark Reddish color. This new oil is basically Clear. What I have read about this Mobil DTE 24 is it is excellent.
    ...
    DTE 24 hydraulic oil IS NOT the correct oil for your headstock! You want DTE Light. Hydraulic oils are engineered for very different applications. We've had this discussion over and over. The only thing that right about DTE 24 is the viscosity.

    Cal

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    The window can be cleaned. Take the retaining ring off/out, use a "Q"-tip with a little acetone or Lacquer thinner and carefully wipe the window.
    On my 10ee's, the old varnish dissolved easily with Acetone.
    I did test the reaction of Acetone and the plastic lens material by wiping the outer perimeter of the plastic with a wet Q-tip and checked to see if the acetone softened the plastic. It did not on my plastic items.

    DualValve

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cal Haines View Post
    DTE 24 hydraulic oil IS NOT the correct oil for your headstock! You want DTE Light. Hydraulic oils are engineered for very different applications. We've had this discussion over and over. The only thing that right about DTE 24 is the viscosity.

    Cal
    Cal,

    Is there a chart somewhere for the right oils that are available today? I have a 1944 vintage 10EE and although I won't need the oil for a spell as I'm nowhere near getting mine even fully apart, much less cleaned, fixed and back together, I'd like to get them here so I have them on hand.

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    For 10ee's with three windows in the headstock,
    Mobile DTE LIGHT. Circulating oil - Lubricating oil This is used for the spindle bearings, front and rear.
    For the center section of the headstock, and the threading gearbox
    Mobil DTE Heavy-Medium Circulating oil

    For the apron sump for lubricting the ways
    Mobil Vactra #2

    I found all of these on Amazon, and through Zoro.

    DualValve

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    Quote Originally Posted by DualValve View Post
    For 10ee's with three windows in the headstock,
    Mobile DTE LIGHT. Circulating oil - Lubricating oil This is used for the spindle bearings, front and rear.
    For the center section of the headstock, and the threading gearbox
    Mobil DTE Heavy-Medium Circulating oil

    For the apron sump for lubricting the ways
    Mobil Vactra #2

    I found all of these on Amazon, and through Zoro.

    DualValve
    Newer square-dials with only one oil sight glass take just DTE Light in the center reservoir, with services the spindle bearings as well.

    Cal


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