Monarch 10EE: Tooling??
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    Default Monarch 10EE: Tooling??

    OK, so picking up 1969 Monarch 10EE this Friday.It has Taper Attachment as well as the ELSR Option.
    Comes with an Aloris AXA Tool Post.

    I own a larger lathe with an Aloris DA tool post.

    I will be having to acquire Tool holders.
    The AXA standard shank holders’ groove is 1/2 Tall by 7/16 Deep.
    The AXA 1S are 5/8 by 7/16 Deep.
    The BXA 1S are 3/4 by 1/2 Deep.

    My desire is to avoid investing in the wrong direction on tooling.
    So:
    1) Thoughts on sticking with the AXA Post and buying holders for it?
    2) Acquire a BXA Tool Post and BXA 1s holders?
    3) I wonder what the most available/popular tool shank size is?

    Thanks in advance all, for any help with your guidance here.
    Ken

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    I ditched an AXA and put a BXA on my 10EE. It helped that I already had a BXA on my Colchester Chipmaster, so I had some holders in hand. The 10EE can handle all of the size and stiffness of a BXA, and everybody knows size matters! You can get a lot more stick tooling that will fit BXA holders than AXA holders. AXA is too small.

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    Why do use large text colored blue in your posts?

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    Rob,
    Simply easier to read

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    Mac007: the problem with many insert tools that CAN fit in the BXA is that the tool holder cannot be lowered enough to get the cutter-tip at or below the center of the stock in the lathe's chuck..
    I have BXA and AXA holders and posts. Some particular insert tools that I like and have lots of inserts for don't fit in the AXA holders. but could not be set or adjusted low enough when in the BXA holders.
    So I have several BXA holders that I have run though the mill and lowered the bottom of the holder-slot.
    And, I have many tools that I have milled the 3/4" shank down to 1/2" to fit in an AXA holder.

    So to answer your question, either will work, there are plenty of 1/2" insertable bit tools available, and with a bit of creativity you can use either AXA or BXA on your 10ee.

    DualValve

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    My 1967 10ee came with a CXA and a BXA. The CXA was just plane too big. The BXA has been great and seems just right.

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    DualValve,
    Thanks for the post.
    Aloris shows for BXA, from bottom of holder to top of tool slot as 1.125.
    Several posts on here in another thread are showing 1.25 as dimension from top of Compound to Spindle Centerline. So it seems a BXA Post and holders should allow you to adjust tooling to work centerline and slightly below as well...
    This would permit using 5/8 shank tooling.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mac007 View Post
    Rob,
    Simply easier to read
    For YOU? Maybe?

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    Quote Originally Posted by DualValve View Post
    Mac007: the problem with many insert tools that CAN fit in the BXA is that the tool holder cannot be lowered enough to get the cutter-tip at or below the center of the stock in the lathe's chuck..
    What toolholders are you referring to? I have never run into that problem, and I must have about 40 holders with all sorts of different carbide insert stick tools and boring bars, and have never had a problem with height using a BXA-size toolpost. I have stick tools with 3/8", 1/2", 5/8", and 3/4" shanks.

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    I repair many different mechanical things, and modify existing parts, the BXA is too fat and in the way much of the time "I do have one".
    I can see if you had a lathe the next size up that uses 3/8"ic inserts, perhaps sharing tooling using the BXA. One should keep in mind the EE cant utilize the cutting depth of that size insert on the EE.
    My next up lathe uses 1/2" ic inserts, so there is no sharing any tooling 1" holders. I use 1/4" ic inserts and the AXA post with the ee.

    I know the OP is a little more green then blue when it comes to the machine, so I will point out a few things.
    Your machine has 5hp, but running the machine beyond the ability of the speed compensation circuit to hold rpm is hard on the drive, will cause over heating. The machine will handle negative rake inserts quite well, but not to full capability even with 1/4" ic inserts.

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    I have BXA, mainly cause its the same size as my other lathe and don't want to buy yet another flavor of tooling. I don't have any problems with that size on the EE. And, you can buy the holders by the dozen (cheap) from CDCO. Now, I really like the old KDK/Big Mack type, as you can see over the top, and they not as obtrusive as the Aloris, but, KDK is no longer available as far as I know, and don't need more unobtainable tooling.

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    Just another fella using BXA holders. its the best size for the 10EE. I have over 20 holders all set up to use either on this lathe or on the 15" leblond. Same tool height by making an adaptor on the Leblond.

    I made several holders to hold 3/4 square tools and cut several 1x1 tools down to 3/4.


    The whole idea here is standardization for my shop. Same inserts o the Mazak M4, Leblond servo shift and the Monarch 10EE.


    Think ahead, using AXA may make standardizing your shop difficult.

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    Quote Originally Posted by donie View Post
    ...I will point out a few things.
    Your machine has 5hp, but running the machine beyond the ability of the speed compensation circuit to hold rpm is hard on the drive, will cause over heating. The machine will handle negative rake inserts quite well, but not to full capability even with 1/4" ic inserts.
    ^^^ THIS ^^^

    By somewhere in the mid-nineteen-thirties, Monarch had become right GOOD at applying the mass of good alloy out of one of Ohio's best-ever foundrys to more stiffness and precision holding than average in ALL their lathes. 10EE R&D began 1936, they weren't after a "mini hogger". Monarch already had other lathes for chewing of heavy chip.

    All the meat of a 10EE's heavy hams was about not MOVING when it took what for its era were incredibly stable and enduringly repeatable LIGHT TOUCH cuts to incredible accuracy. First time, every time, all the time, for a looong time... As they can still do.

    2 MT TS stayed "good enough" until its sunset years. Compound doesn't support TP but so tall. Easily HALF the power budget - if not 2/3'rds of it - was put there to support stable variable speeds, nary a bit of gear-cogging "watermarks" - not for fatter chips.

    Use it as if it were a lighter Hardinge "toolroom" model, but equipped with heavier muscles, a massive arse for anchorage, and great brass balls?

    A 10EE ... stable as Gibralter's rocks only WISH they were...brings grins.

    Want some other lathe with different design priorities?

    Just make the space for it, find it, rig it into place, and budget the power for it. Expect it to do whatever it was that it was intended to do, also.


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    I will mainly be turning aluminum.
    Sounds like I need to do some test cuts before deciding on using the AXA or to pursue a BXA.

    Really appreciate all the responses.

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    My comment about not being able to get some tools to adjust low enough is relative to my 1942 10ee round dial.

    I just picked up a 1954 square dial 10ee, with a center rest.. Putting this center rest on the bed of my '42 round dial shows that
    the spindle/headstock centerline is about 1" [I dd not measure it] higher above he bed-ways and above the top of compound's
    toolpost mount surface.

    This higher centerline will make most of my larger tooling usable un-modified on the newer square-dial 19ee.

    Sorry for any confusion that my comment may have created, I now know that physically the early round dial lathes are different than the later machines,

    DualValve

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mac007 View Post
    Rob,
    Simply easier to read
    More like very annoying.

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    Quote Originally Posted by donie View Post
    I repair many different mechanical things, and modify existing parts, the BXA is too fat and in the way much of the time "I do have one".

    Your machine has 5hp, but running the machine beyond the ability of the speed compensation circuit to hold rpm is hard on the drive, will cause over heating. The machine will handle negative rake inserts quite well, but not to full capability even with 1/4" ic inserts.
    Donnie, Thanks and yes I’m Green
    So my take away, is that the 10EE, a precision Lathe, more on the finesse side of the equation, So It had a Aloris AXA on it when I got it and sounds like that would be a good fit and I will just need to get the tooling to go with it. Big is not always better :}
    I do have my Larger Hendey if I need to really go crazy!

    Also, Donnie This machine is in excellent physical condition and does run up to full RPM. However it has an RPM inconsistency as the dial is turned up/down and once wired up at my shop I can provide more details of what it is doing, also I have ordered some modern diodes and some .25 OD Brass to make the little ends you solder on the new style diodes to allow installation into the holders without soldering them. They arrive Wed 12-4. So I want to know any bad diodes are replaced before I start asking for help.

    Kind Regards, KEN

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    The diodes in rectifier 3 can get hot and degrade faster then the others, the diodes failing will often indicate a problem in the circuit they are in.
    At this point, check the condition of the contacts in the main switch, and the forward and reverse switches next to it. The forward switch contacts should show the most wear. Clean or replace the contacts, pick out the best ones for the forward switch, take a look at all other relays and switches look for anything that has got hot.
    It is always good, but awkward head bump and probably a mirror to look into the drive motor, just to make sure the commutator is smooth, and the motor is not full of cat hair.

    The lathe looks good, I have seen many from Hanford and Boeing, that are really beat up.

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    Quote Originally Posted by donie View Post
    The diodes in rectifier 3 can get hot and degrade faster then the others, the diodes failing will often indicate a problem in the circuit they are in.
    Donnie, Check out the photo, REC 3 Diodes were replaced at some point, Good Call
    Today I plan to replace all the diodes 100% with new modern ones with .250 OD brass modified ends & check the contacts as you suggested. Then do another test run.

    Also 3rd diode in REC 1 was replaced at some point and if you look closely at the bottom lead-wire it looks like it is discolored like it got hot.

    Thanks for the guidance, very much appreciated !

    Kind Regards,
    Ken

    1e1ee618-6c9f-43bb-b701-061e06a48d6c.jpg

    44504fc0-49a9-4a1e-975e-5b696d9cda4f.jpg

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    Donie,
    If you see this, what RPM did you use to part off the Brass ends for the diodes, Also RPM when center drilling?

    Thanks, Ken


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