Monarch CK 12

Just got a Ck 12 up and running. Everything seems to run out ok so far on a little test run anyhow. . Few "little" thing
s going on with it but First thing I noticed is the engage arm will kind of "gravity" fall on its on and engage on its on. Really loose feeling. Definitely something I want to address right off the bat. Any suggestions of what to adjust or how? Many thanks for any info.

On the left hand side of the lathe is a bulge. Within is the clutch. There is disk with a ridge that the rollers move over to engage and disengage the clutch. On mine the ridge was worn enough that I couldn't keep the spindle engaged and if I weren't careful, the weight of the handle would cause the spindle to drift. You probably have the same issue. I fixed mine by machining the grooves a little deeper and positioning the rollers to move on an unworn part of the disk.

Tom

Took a look at it.....the rollers don't even seem to touch the lip on the disk when the handle is pulled all the way up. Definite someone has buggered with it....I don't see any set screws to adjust disc on the shaft....just a pin that had been crudely half drove in and bradded down. Engages good and strong...but creep isn't the word....it will flat out engage with handle weight every time....got to do something with it for sure.

Franky6767 said:

Took a look at it.....the rollers don't even seem to touch the lip on the disk when the handle is pulled all the way up. Definite someone has buggered with it....I don't see any set screws to adjust disc on the shaft....just a pin that had been crudely half drove in and bradded down. Engages good and strong...but creep isn't the word....it will flat out engage with handle weight every time....got to do something with it for sure.

Click to expand...

Oh good, mine isn't the only one like that.

does the brake engage?

I have the, I think, older brake/clutch with 4 feet and no rollers, it is a bitch to get adjusted right

it needs to be just so to get so you have bot brake and clutch, and it involves removing all 4 arms and threading the hub up and down to get it in the right spot. It is the over center action of the clutch tat gives you the pop to keep it from slipping on

There is also a threaded shaft in the center that the brake is on, so you can adjust the distance between brake and clutch

Franky,
There's a late member of the board that had some very educational posts about Monarch lathes in general, his login was beckley23. I'd suggest you search through the forum and look for his threads, several of which are stickied at the top.

His attention to detail was impeccable and he is surely missed.

Here's a link to his thread about 12CK clutch issues - https://www.practicalmachinist.com/...lutch-problem-s-255620/?highlight=12ck+clutch

gustafson said:

does the brake engage?

I have the, I think, older brake/clutch with 4 feet and no rollers, it is a bitch to get adjusted right

it needs to be just so to get so you have bot brake and clutch, and it involves removing all 4 arms and threading the hub up and down to get it in the right spot. It is the over center action of the clutch tat gives you the pop to keep it from slipping on

There is also a threaded shaft in the center that the brake is on, so you can adjust the distance between brake and clutch

Click to expand...

Brake works good.....engages fine. There is alot of slop....wear....in the collar on the very end of clutch shaft. Its on the collar the first "horseshoe" linkage and "shoes" engage and push clutch shaft back and forth. Slop is that collar for sure. But heck...I can kind of take the play out with a temperary shim and it still engagers rather easy

Yes I read the thread titled 12CK clutch issues.....I think he was going another way....correcting jumping out of gear. Best info so far but not the answer to my riddle. He did show a spring ( mine is missing or never had one). I did try a spring ....no difference or it won't engage like that. Couldn't hold the play out of the end of the shaft by pulling it away from clutch and it made no difference either.

Adjusting the clutch came to mind although it works great as far as engaging with the way its set..... but looks like to me it would have to spin 360 to get the keyway to line back up on an adjustment from current position. It sure not going to tighten that much.

What exactly holds the lever up? Like positive locking up position....so far Im no seeing it....unless its those rollers on clutch that roll under the drum on the end....but that sure don't have much resistance there....nothing to hold that lever up anyhow.

Any ideas are greatly appreciated. I can't get to tearing something else up without some type solution for this

BTW my clutch looks like the same one on this thread,,,first 9 pictures....(except my shaft isn't threaded on end...that looks like a modification anyhow.

https://www.practicalmachinist.com/...lutch-problem-s-255620/?highlight=12ck+clutch

I do believe it is the over center action that holds the lever up

My brake was butchered when I bought it and I made up new shoes and the brake cone was worn off, so I turned it off and made a new one. It did not have any spring, but that doesn't mean much

My style is very difficult to get adjusted where you get brake, clutch and separation between the two. I hope yours is easier.....

Over center action.....I don't quit understand were that happens on this unit....and I very well might be looking right at it....just at a loss on this one. Seems like there would be a simple solution but I just don't see it. I know its dangerous ever by my standards and got to be fixed somehow.

I appreciate all the input thusfar and if anyone has any tips or ideas at all please let me know. Sure would like to get this baby going.

TDegenhart said:

On the left hand side of the lathe is a bulge. Within is the clutch. There is disk with a ridge that the rollers move over to engage and disengage the clutch. On mine the ridge was worn enough that I couldn't keep the spindle engaged and if I weren't careful, the weight of the handle would cause the spindle to drift. You probably have the same issue. I fixed mine by machining the grooves a little deeper and positioning the rollers to move on an unworn part of the disk.

Tom

Click to expand...

I think I must have a different clutch than yours? LInk in post 8 has pictures like mine

Franky6767 said:

Over center action.....I don't quit understand were that happens on this unit....and I very well might be looking right at it....just at a loss on this one. Seems like there would be a simple solution but I just don't see it. I know its dangerous ever by my standards and got to be fixed somehow.

I appreciate all the input thusfar and if anyone has any tips or ideas at all please let me know. Sure would like to get this baby going.

Click to expand...

Not in the drawing on that thread the part marked 'cam'

I believe the inside is shaped as a, well, cam.

This means that it will stay put when in either end of its travel.

If you look at the pic I posted in that thread, it is a little more obvious on my assembly, the 4 arms are longer than the space, thus they will rest either forward or back, and it takes some effort to move through the middle

I assume your style clutch does the same in a different way

It is a tedious process to get the brake and clutch aligned, and on either side of the 'cam'

It involves rotating the hub on its large thread and then adjusting the brake shaft in relation to that

Don't ask me, I have never really got it right

I think I know what your saying.... The end is like a drum (cam)....inside lip on the drum is has a "cam" so to speak. Engaged it goes all the way in and rests in a groove.....all the way disengaged it rests on the outer lip. In between its alittle high spot. Trick is the roller wont even hold on the outer lip....they just slip passed that easy. Rollers appear to have very little wear in them...and the drum looks to be hardly any. Ive removed tapered pin and put some set screws on opposire side so I can move it around to test/adjust.....won't hold hold anywhere along the travel. Will engage though...and brake works great....strange to me. Maybe the rollers are that wore out? Certainly don't look that bad....or maybe I got it all wrong in my thinking. I appreciate your guidance....means alot to me. Kind of stuck at the moment with it.

Found the play in handle....bronze collar was wore badly....making a new one and fooling around with different compression springs between clutch rollers and Cam "drum" was able to fix to my satisfaction

Progress!

On a separate note.... can anyone tell me if the two nuts on the very end of spindle shaft tighten spindle bearing load o the CK 12? NO other adjustment for spindle bearing needed? There on the clutch end of shaft of course....but nothing else needs to be done inside headstock to adjust spindle bearing ?? ANy tips on the procedure? Monarch manual saying tighten as tight as needed but only until it won't run hot?? That seems crude...

Thanks for all the help....getting closer to getting this old usable.

Franky6767 said:

View attachment 235409

Found the play in handle....bronze collar was wore badly....making a new one and fooling around with different compression springs between clutch rollers and Cam "drum" was able to fix to my satisfaction

Progress!

On a separate note.... can anyone tell me if the two nuts on the very end of spindle shaft tighten spindle bearing load o the CK 12? NO other adjustment for spindle bearing needed? There on the clutch end of shaft of course....but nothing else needs to be done inside headstock to adjust spindle bearing ?? ANy tips on the procedure? Monarch manual saying tighten as tight as needed but only until it won't run hot?? That seems crude...

Thanks for all the help....getting closer to getting this old usable.

Click to expand...

I'm not sure I could find the post, but a member here once wrote a bit about preloading tapered bearings and he also did it with bearing temp in mind. Some of his rationale was that in angular contact pairs the preload was to ensure that all of the rollers were rolling, rather than skidding, over the races and to do so without excessive friction (heat).

So if I was dead set on adjusting my spindle bearings I'd back off both nuts a few turns then tighten the spindle nut back up just beyond hand tight. Run the spindle at some middle speed for 15min and using an IR temp gun look for heat rise at the right end of the head stock. If none, just a touch tighter. Trial and error until I got some temp change, say 10-20 degrees, and then tighten the jam nut. Run one last trial to make sure nothing got bumped around and then call it good.

Curious though, what makes you think they're not adjusted now?

Cole2534 said:

Franky,
There's a late member of the board that had some very educational posts about Monarch lathes in general, his login was beckley23. I'd suggest you search through the forum and look for his threads, several of which are stickied at the top.

His attention to detail was impeccable and he is surely missed.

Here's a link to his thread about 12CK clutch issues - https://www.practicalmachinist.com/...lutch-problem-s-255620/?highlight=12ck+clutch

Click to expand...

I have the 12 CK from Harry. It still works as advertised in the link.