Monarch CY 16 Winter Project
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  1. #1
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    Cool Monarch CY 16 Winter Project

    My name is William and I live in Central Ky.

    I purchased this Monarch CY from a local plant closing as my winter project.

    Wonderful to find such a knowledgable group. I'm of the renaissance man demographic, not to say thats a good thing, where I do all sorts of stuff, just enough to stay busy. So now I'm going to learn how to bring back to life a tired, beefy, short, anvil like, Monarch CY, a true classic, we dont make them like this anymore, a Monster lathe. Cool!

    So just a little back ground.
    MONARCH CY 16"X 36" serial number 24271, built Oct. 1943, sold Nov. 1943 to Bendix. I got the original build sheet, Very Cool!

    Sometime it was sold to CLARK, asset tag number 24254, and painted some ungodly orange. Then it was sold to Dana? and repainted, poorly, a machine grey, still not right.

    So, there are problems. Something in the feedscrew and power rod drive is broken. Clutch has issues, motor works but it gets at least a once through before moving on to a modern option.

    I have been researching PM, diving into many threads, getting more information than any book ever had on the inner workings of a Monarch AA-BB-C-CK-CU-CY and Models EE-K-M-N-NN-W. Enough said.

    Im going to post my projects, share pictures, reluctantly harvest Monarch parts, and certainly rely on the good nature of this site.

    I have one more tool acquisition, a cherry picker, foldable, 2 ton hoist, so I and my friends can save our backs. Then it is dissasembly time. Not to panic, I have skills, just not specific knowledge, hence the introduction to the group of people that know how to do this.

    Last note. If this lathe can be repaired, it will first need to be running and fully functional, diagnosed, then we can talk about accepted performance. I would love to strip it down, have the ways ground, saddle extended, all new parts, money, money and more money... My goal is functional and cosmetically correct. Who would of thought stripping and painting on a project would be the easy part.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 20181017_154511.jpg   20181017_154520.jpg   20181017_154547.jpg   20181017_154555.jpg   20181004_120312.jpg  


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  3. #2
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    Hi Will, here's a couple tidbits to get you started. If they seem elementary, no offense intended.

    1) Don't take anything apart yet.

    2) The clutch looks very similar to the one on my 12ck and that's had some pretty good discussion over the years. The search tool on-site and google are both very helpful, so maybe try 12ck clutch issues and it'll get ya into it.

    3) The feed rod is a pretty simple affair. If it's not working it's either catastrophic or a pretty easy fix, no middle ground really.

    4) Use the thing a bit before you decide to disassemble for a repaint/etc. These are excellent machines made from the finest materials, produced to the highest of standards, and designed for a very long life. By taking some test cuts and learning its downfalls you'll get a better feel for which repairs to execute in which order, or you may find that it's a fine beast as it sits.

    5) Search the user beckley23 and read every Monarch thread he had started.

    Good luck with your project.

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  5. #3
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    Excellent advice.

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    Maybe - but probably not - I'll take my 16 CW X 102 apart someday. Had it about twenty years, fixed the stuff that was important, like the cross slide. Its been a marvelous helper-outer. One owner from Houston Light & Power - they gave $5775 for it new in August of 1946 - almost as much as a house cost then.

    Sure, it looks crappy with its grungy green paint, but that is the least of my concerns
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails dcp_0290.jpg  

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    Default Getting Started

    20181023_190821.jpg

    So with the power rod and screw not working, I'm hoping for a simpler fix in the final drive. So off with the tail stock, saddle and apron...

    It doesn't take long to discover some interesting history.

    Interesting fix. Also bushing replacement, but didn't drill the oil passage. On we go.

    20181023_190842.jpg

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    Quote Originally Posted by WillWilly View Post
    My name is William and I live in Central Ky.

    I purchased this Monarch CY from a local plant closing as my winter project.

    Wonderful to find such a knowledgable group. I'm of the renaissance man demographic, not to say thats a good thing, where I do all sorts of stuff, just enough to stay busy. So now I'm going to learn how to bring back to life a tired, beefy, short, anvil like, Monarch CY, a true classic, we dont make them like this anymore, a Monster lathe. Cool!

    So just a little back ground.
    MONARCH CY 16"X 36" serial number 24271, built Oct. 1943, sold Nov. 1943 to Bendix. I got the original build sheet, Very Cool!

    Sometime it was sold to CLARK, asset tag number 24254, and painted some ungodly orange. Then it was sold to Dana? and repainted, poorly, a machine grey, still not right.

    So, there are problems. Something in the feedscrew and power rod drive is broken. Clutch has issues, motor works but it gets at least a once through before moving on to a modern option.

    I have been researching PM, diving into many threads, getting more information than any book ever had on the inner workings of a Monarch AA-BB-C-CK-CU-CY and Models EE-K-M-N-NN-W. Enough said.

    Im going to post my projects, share pictures, reluctantly harvest Monarch parts, and certainly rely on the good nature of this site.

    I have one more tool acquisition, a cherry picker, foldable, 2 ton hoist, so I and my friends can save our backs. Then it is dissasembly time. Not to panic, I have skills, just not specific knowledge, hence the introduction to the group of people that know how to do this.

    Last note. If this lathe can be repaired, it will first need to be running and fully functional, diagnosed, then we can talk about accepted performance. I would love to strip it down, have the ways ground, saddle extended, all new parts, money, money and more money... My goal is functional and cosmetically correct. Who would of thought stripping and painting on a project would be the easy part.
    Monster lathe? That thing is a baby Monarch.

  9. #7
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    I have dove into the clutch to diagnose the issues. Well, not a lot of good news.

    20181031_153654.jpg20181031_153710.jpg20181031_153734.jpg

    The outer clutch material has seperated from the disc and the inner mostly eaten. The plates look good.
    The clutch spindle appears to have been dropped, breaking a piece off thread.

    The bearing is very loose, and the spindle key is loose in the keyway.

    So lots of work ahead of me.

    Ill be looking for someone to reline the clutch and a replacement spindle. Im sure the spindle is near unabtainable.

    20181031_160923.jpg20181031_160944.jpg

  10. #8
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    Default Monarch CY16 Clutch

    Quote Originally Posted by Cole2534 View Post
    Hi Will, here's a couple tidbits to get you started. If they seem elementary, no offense intended.

    1) Don't take anything apart yet.

    2) The clutch looks very similar to the one on my 12ck and that's had some pretty good discussion over the years. The search tool on-site and google are both very helpful, so maybe try 12ck clutch issues and it'll get ya into it.

    3) The feed rod is a pretty simple affair. If it's not working it's either catastrophic or a pretty easy fix, no middle ground really.

    4) Use the thing a bit before you decide to disassemble for a repaint/etc. These are excellent machines made from the finest materials, produced to the highest of standards, and designed for a very long life. By taking some test cuts and learning its downfalls you'll get a better feel for which repairs to execute in which order, or you may find that it's a fine beast as it sits.

    5) Search the user beckley23 and read every Monarch thread he had started.

    Good luck with your project.

    Thanks so much for the response.
    As you can see I need to disassemble for some serious issues. Wish I could just jump in and start using but this lathe has had some abuse. It will take some time to get it up and functioning again.

    The clutch on mine is a mess. It appears there was a sequence of events and modifications to the lathe that resulted in the clutch in such bad condition.

    First, my lathe has been modified electrically to allow for reverse operation. I don't think this was a wise idea especially since one could stop the lathe without deactivating the clutch and reverse before the chuck has come to a stop. this is evident in the wear of the keys. I hope there isn't issues in the gear box, which I haven't opened yet.

    The bearing nut in the clutch had come loose, causing the seal to be destroyed, allowing oil to get on the clutch...

    The clutch was run when miss adjusted, causing collision between the cam and the cam arm. The bearing is probably trashed but I'm not quite there yet. Need to get the belts off.

    Attachment 241366

    I have been reviewing Monarch threads, including your 12CK clutch repairs. Excellent resource.

    I'm sending the clutch disk off for relining once I figure out how thick the material needs to be.

  11. #9
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    Does anyone have recommendations on what the thickness of the friction material should be on the Edgemont Clutch? I'm considering 3/16". After measuring the clearance of the clutch disk between the pressure plates, and looking at the stroke avaiable for adjustment, this should bring me to the top of the adjustment.

    Any advise would be helpful, even the type of material...


    Thanks
    William

  12. #10
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    Probably cost a good bit but Monarch may still have the proper parts available. You should give them a call.

  13. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by moonlight machine View Post
    Monster lathe? That thing is a baby Monarch.
    Indeed! Small Monarch, Monster in my Garage...

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    Some more ispection, cleaning, and disvovery.

    As mentioned, the clutch is a mess. I have taken it apart. Some good news, some not so good, some OMG!

    Attachment 241556

    With everything stripped from the drive pully, some digging out of the old grease, into hot bath of purple power. No problems so far.


    Attachment 241557
    Some cleaning to do. I am going to remove all the old paint, primer and repaint the lathe.


    Attachment 241558
    The levers and lever bearings are in poor shape. The hub appears to have been dropped in its history but still functions except when need to adjust the clutch in that spot.
    The cam has damage that created grooves in the levers and nut. The nut is still servicable. Im checking on Monarch replacements, as well as clutch material. This is my first quote request, we'll see how much they value thier parts.


    Attachment 241559
    The cam has seen better days. Im not even going to ask how much Monarch wants for this... with new lever bearings, I will start with this.

    Attachment 241560
    This sleeve shows signs the cone bearings spun. There is wear under the inner cone bearing, so I will need to address that with Loctite?


    20181104_130955.jpg
    The ways look good. I don't plan on doing anything here until long after i have the lathe running. Thorough cleaning, lite stoning of nicks.

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    Well, the clutch has severe issues. Broken parts, a decent repair in the past but needs new parts.

    So here is the long shot. If anyone has an Edgemont 8SF laying around, I'm interested.

    20181104_131045.jpg

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    Default

    20181104_131045.jpg
    20181104_131025.jpg20181104_131100.jpg

  17. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by WillWilly View Post
    Well, the clutch has severe issues. Broken parts, a decent repair in the past but needs new parts.

    So here is the long shot. If anyone has an Edgemont 8SF laying around, I'm interested.

    20181104_131045.jpg
    You got a mill? If so, I think this part can be salvaged with some creativity and brazing rod.

  18. #16
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    A winter project. How about a few winters project.

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    I don't have a mill yet. In fact, I need this lathe done so I can make parts for the lathe... Some of that chicken and egg thing.

    I'm going with the hub as is. It isn't ideal but it is functional.

    The levers are junk. One has already been brazed. Another has a crack in a thin spot. A broken lever is probably the cause of much of the damage I'm seeing.

    Monarch wants $400 for a set of three levers with rollers. Even if I had the means I can't see paying that much. I understand the lever is a very complicated machined part from a forged blank, but that is a bit out of my price range.

    I am trying to cut the lever profile from some flat stock 4140 via laser. It will be a lamination of several parts, held together with the lever pin and an 1/8" roll pin.

    I'll add some pictures when I'm done.

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    Indeed? I'm taking them one at a time.

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    Some pictures of my clutch lever replacements.

    lever-picture.jpg

    20181106_194059.jpg

    20181106_194237.jpg

    20181106_194634.jpg

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    Default Clutch Relining service

    I'm using a Industrial Brake and Supply in Walton KY for the clutch relining. They are very reasonable and don't mind my belt and suspenders approach by asking the material be bonded and riveted...

    I'll post the results on it's return.


    Custom Fabricator & Distributor of Specialty Friction and Brake Shoe Assemblies for Off-Highway & In-Plant Applications - Ohio, Tennessee, Pennsylvania, West Virginia, South Carolina, Georgia, Florida


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