Thread: Monarch CY 16 Winter Project

What is the general consensuses of Timken Class 3 bearings rather than the original unobtainium Class 0?

The difference between 3 and 0 is plain here. The 3 is but half as "good" (assembled runout). I am amazed Monarch would send out a CY (specifically a tool room machine ) with Class 3 - but who knows the crush of those days when I was but 3 years old

Scans from Timken Engineering

I was under the impression that all CY's had Class 0 Timken in the spindle but as you said, who knows what challenges Monarch was under those days.



Regardless of the consensus, Class 0 842/832 Timken is nearly unobtainable without some serious cash. Monarch will supply with a healthy lead time and nearly $3000. I was lucky to find a Class 3 for just under $1000.

I am playing with original bearing to determine how good or bad it really is. I don't have the equipment to measure and mainly can only judge based on what I see, hear,and feel. When spinning on the counter, there is a "knock". I then cleaned thoroughly, lightly oiled and it "sounds" better but still a slight "knock" corresponding to the rollers rotation.

A moot point since I'm replacing.

I removed the race (cup) and it is labeled the same as the cone, 9-25-43 3.

A very productive weekend. The more I contemplated spending so much money for the spindle bearing, why would I not replace all the bearings. Rational but alot of work. Fortunately the internals are in excellent condition.

I went ahead and started ordering bearings
Some NOS, some new... I requested bearing information from Monarch but they would not supply. So I have created a Timken list and plan on marking up these two pictures with the corrent Timken bearing numbers.

It appears only the rear spindle bearing was replaced in the past. I'm also finding a lot of loose and missing set screws, but all the missing set screws I found in the bottom of the case. There are two keyed gears on the main drive.Both were very sloppy.

The goal is all new bearings, keys. And everything lock tighted and tight. .

I'm a little late to the thread, but have some experience with the Polane spray and fill.

It sands beautifully, but unfortunately isn't very strong. Paint over the top of it and it looks great, but the finish coats chip off easily, exposing....you guessed it.

If you are determined to use it, sand off as much of it as possible. Better yet is a skim coat of reinforced bondo. More work, but a harder substrate.

Originally Posted by neilho

I'm a little late to the thread, but have some experience with the Polane spray and fill.
...

Normal folks should STAY AWAY from two-part epoxy paints like Polane, which use isocyanate hardeners. They can really mess you up! You need a proper supplied air respirator and other safety equipment to safely apply it.

Cal

Well yes, that too, Cal.

Off hand, I can't think of any paint that's healthy to breathe, though Polane is among the worst. He seems determined, though.

Originally Posted by neilho

Well yes, that too, Cal.

Off hand, I can't think of any paint that's healthy to breathe, though Polane is among the worst. He seems determined, though.

I used to fly radio controlled helicopters and the only paint that stuck for a while was the 2 part epoxy paints. I ended up sensitized to isocyanates. Now just a whiff and my lungs spasm or something and it's close to impossible to breath. I stay away from that shit.

I've been using Imron for many years. 3M makes a cartridge for isocyanides. There is no way to tell when it's saturated, so you have to be religious about changing them out. I don't use Imron on just anything, but when I do it's for as reason. The stuff is amazing. I use a full face respirator, tyvek type suit, and rubber gloves. No skin showing. I throw the cartridges away after one use. I try to keep the area well ventilated and I don't hang out there. The thing about isocyanide from what I understand is that it accumulates in your kidneys over time, so you may not know what you're doing to yourself until it's too late. What's your tolerance for risk when the consequences are so severe? I paint a handful of things a year and I protect myself the best I can. To me, the level of risk I believe I'm taking is very low.

Here are the bearings I am replacing. Quite the costly endeavor, even with NOS. Hopefully it will be a wise investment since all but one were original. Hopefully I don't need a great deal of shims since these will be Monarch originals.

Originally Posted by rke[pler

I used to fly radio controlled helicopters and the only paint that stuck for a while was the 2 part epoxy paints. I ended up sensitized to isocyanates. Now just a whiff and my lungs spasm or something and it's close to impossible to breath. I stay away from that shit.

Someone suggested that the charcoal filters don't work: not so they do. They DISCOURAGE YOU FROM USING THEM with the urethanes because THEY GIVE NO WARNING when they're tapped out, and yes, all caps cause it's seriously bad for you.

You probably used urethanes on your RC heli, epoxies typically don't do that. Epoxies can cause an amine sensitivity though.

Parts are coming along. This is the Brake/Clutch cone with the new Bronze brake shoe. You can see the old shoe was worn badly. this is a result of the cam-over on the clutch not being adjusted properly and possibly running the machine low on oil since this is under and oil drip tube.




I have installed the spindle races. This is the Class 3 Timken. I spent time stoning the pocket and was able to freeze and set in place with little effort.




I have acquired all new bearings. This is my box of used. I have never installed a used bearing but if anyone needs these, you are welcome to them. None are in bad shape and may be able to get you by in your tractor?


More to come!

Wow you are into this project for real. Looks like you're doing it the right way, though. Means you won't have regrets from cutting corners. Keep it up.

I need some advise. I'm installing all new bearings and now ready to set end play. I have started with the existing shims and find I'm tight on some bearings.

I have read in depth the process of preload for the spindle bearings but haven't found anything on the other shafts.

Any recommendations on end play if any?

Spoke with Monarch on the matter of endplay for intermediate shafts and their answer was:

"0.000 to 0.001" (I assume this is the spindle) and the rest lose"

Not incredibly helpful. I'm going to proceed with 0.001 to 0.002" end play on the intermediate shafts for now. It also depends on how many shims I have to achieve the best possible results.

I bought my lathe from DANA in Glasgow KY during their first equipment sale from partial plant closing. they just completed their final plant closing and I was able to acquire the chucks that were used on this lathe.

There was an enormous amount of tooling, equipment and accessories that went up for sale as well. Much went for far more than what I could afford and the lots were too large to justify buying for the parts I needed. I was only able to acquire the chucks.

I have a great resource for some parts I need like the cross feed nut and screw. Kevin Musial of Musial Machine is making me a new bronze nut and machining the Acme Screw. I found Kevin on eBay selling 10EE cross-feed nuts and I asked if he could make a CY16 nut. He has graciously taken on my request and is great to work with. He sent the pictures above on the progress. Thanks so much Kevin.

I spent last evening getting the bearings shimmed properly. This is a bit tricky since the intermediate shaft (one that is next to the spindle) has shims on both ends of the shaft. One end is for gear clearance and the other for bearing endplay.



I had to add from 0.003" to 0.015" for the new bearings. I have set with only the slightest of endplay, 0.001" to 0.003". I don't know if this is enough endplay since monarch simply stated "loose".

Who did you talk to, Scott and Tim have always been very helpful.

Hal

Spent the weekend getting the spindle installed with new bearings. I have reviewed several approaches. This is what I came up with since I was alone and only have two hands.

I used a broom handle through the center and laid the nose on the saddle, propping it up to the correct height to simply slide in... this worked very well, handling both ends of the spindle through the case.

On to Preload on the bearings. Lots of theories and techniques...

Originally Posted by 220swift

Who did you talk to, Scott and Tim have always been very helpful.

Hal

I spoke with Terry, takes care of parts?