Thread: Monarch CY 16 Winter Project

MOnarch CY Taper attachment slide felt sweep replacement.

Look what someone did to the taper attachment slide pivit... Now that wasn't very nice! Either it was used for production and they didn't want it to ever move or...

I don't have a CY, but that looks stock. I think the screw/pin on the perimeter of the large pin is called a "Dutch Pin" and you'll see them other places on Monarch lathes. I would think that what you have there is a post that pinned to the casting. Doesn't the casting and pin rotate in part directly underneath?

Cal

Originally Posted by Cal Haines

I don't have a CY, but that looks stock. I think the screw/pin on the perimeter of the large pin is called a "Dutch Pin" and you'll see them other places on Monarch lathes. I would think that what you have there is a post that pinned to the casting. Doesn't the casting and pin rotate in part directly underneath?

Cal

You are very correct. I took it apart and this is a "dutch pin" holding the post in place. Should have known. Monarch wouldn't have used cast surface as the pivot material. I'm not going to remove the post of the taper attachment since it is set nicely. I'm in the process of disassembly and cleaning all the parts. I jumped to the wrong conclusion. Yes, I have seen dutch pins in several applications on this lathe.

The taper attachment is in very good condition. It was very rarely used if at all. It was full of shavings and the slide hadn't been in use in a very long time. Of course all the bearings need replaced, and the taper attachment rod has been broken off. The rod and TA clamp are missing. I have been looking for a replacement but these are nearly impossible to find for sale. I will be making a replacement at some point.

William

Originally Posted by WillWilly

You are very correct. I took it apart and this is a "dutch pin" holding the post in place. Should have known. Monarch wouldn't have used cast surface as the pivot material. I'm not going to remove the post of the taper attachment since it is set nicely. I'm in the process of disassembly and cleaning all the parts. I jumped to the wrong conclusion. Yes, I have seen dutch pins in several applications on this lathe.

The taper attachment is in very good condition. It was very rarely used if at all. It was full of shavings and the slide hadn't been in use in a very long time. Of course all the bearings need replaced, and the taper attachment rod has been broken off. The rod and TA clamp are missing. I have been looking for a replacement but these are nearly impossible to find for sale. I will be making a replacement at some point.

William

Coincidentally, i've jus finished disassembly and cleaning of my 16CY's TA. I'll post some pics later. Yes, this pic is the stock configuration. You will want to remove and clean this part as the center hole is an oil hole for the bearing surface. I'll show this in the pics once i post them.

pics as promised.

Originally Posted by marka12161

Coincidentally, i've jus finished disassembly and cleaning of my 16CY's TA. I'll post some pics later. Yes, this pic is the stock configuration. You will want to remove and clean this part as the center hole is an oil hole for the bearing surface. I'll show this in the pics once i post them.

Yes Please... I pulled my slide for the parts washer and worked on the center hole as you suggested. On mine, this is the center for turning the post. This isn't a hole on mine. I agree that would be useful since I can't find how the post is to be lubricated. I don't see any oil passages on the post. Interesting...

Originally Posted by marka12161

pics as promised.

Very nice! My post does not have the oiling port! It sure needs one though. I like the oil groove as well. I'm going to look at duplicating this port. I believe I will make the oil groove angular, as not to be perpendicular to the bearing surface if that makes sense.

I'll post pictures.

Originally Posted by Cal Haines

You should SERIOUSLY reconsider your choice. Polane is one of the paints that uses isocyanates in the hardener. This is a professional grade product that should only be used by people that at trained AND EQUIPPED to safely use it. There are cases of people suffering serious, lasting neurological damage from a single exposure to isocyanates.

You need to get the safety data sheets for the paint AND ESPECIALLY THE HARDENER. If there is any mention of needing a supplied air respirator, then you need to do something else! Just to be clear, a supplied air respirator has a hose that supplies clean air from outside; a simple cartridge respirator will not filter out the isocyanates. Other equipment includes head-to-toe protection--think haz-mat suit.

Attachment 243411
CDC - NIOSH - Isocyanates

Cal

I've heard that the organic vapor cartridges give no warning when exhausted, thus the need for a supplied-air respirator.

I'm in the process of making a supplied air respirator from a Puritan-Bennet IPPB machine. Unless you're an RRT, don't try this at home. Thanks for the reference- I didn't know about skin absorbtion.
Lastly, even rolling the paint on a floor can be hazardous, so don't try without excessive ventilation.

Originally Posted by marka12161

pics as promised.

I have mine all cleaned and going through as you. I'll try to add some pictures. Mine is identical you yours.

Unfortunately the rod on my was broke at some point and missing. I'll have to come up with a replacement rod bracket for mine. I saw one on ebay but boy they wanted a mint for it and let it pass. I'll probably have to make one.

Originally Posted by marka12161

pics as promised.

I'm getting into the details of the Taper Attachment. One is replacing the magnifying lens for the attachment adjustment.

As I can see, there were originally two lenses, one to magnify and the second on top of that to protect the magnifier. I'm trying several magnifier options first. In the pictures below, you can see the original polycarbinate lens that was in my lathe, (I don't know if this was original to Monarch), and a couple options. Both are 29mm OD, one being a decorative lens from Ebay, the second is a 29mm magnifying watch crystal. either one will require a indicator (red line) either scribed or painted on the lens which I will do after it is assembled and I can quantify zero degrees.






I'm leaning towards the watch crystal as the magnifier. It isn't high magnification as the "fish eye" decorative lens, but it also doesn't distort as much...

I mentioned earlier finding that there were several broken bearings in the Taper attachment, all four were broken in the slide (See Picture). I have also found the adjustment gear for the Taper attachment had a couple teeth in bad shape so I decided to replace the gear. At some point, I'm guessing during a tapering operation the lathe experienced a crash. Also considering the TA was covered in two layers of paint and then not used, it happened quite a while ago. The taper attachment has little wear, mostly corrosion.

It is a 6 pitch, 18 tooth gear, which you can by from McMaster, (Boston Gear). It needs modification but fortunately it did come with the correct bore. Again I'm using another lathe to modify. I purchase a non heat treated gear to make machining easier, and since it just for adjusting the TA, This should be fine. I would rather wear the gear than the rack.

On my lathe, the TA clamp and rod were missing and the rod mount is broke.

So I'm looking for a replacement but this is very unlikely. I have seen only one Monarch TA clamp on Ebay that "might fit" and they wanted $175.

I will most likely affix a new rod to my existing mount, and start thinking about making a clamp if one doesn't come available.

Originally Posted by marka12161

pics as promised.

So a couple questions:

On the 8 horizontal bearings for the TA, was one of yours non adjustable? On mine, the second from the right on the operator side bearing pin is not eccentric and didn't have a nut on the bottom. Not sure if this was a static point for adjusting, or simply a replacement pin for some reason.

What brand of bearings did you use? I found NOS Timken but I'm not paying $50+ dollars for each. I'm breaking from my rule for using only NOS Timken, and going with ND's (??, no doubt Chinese) bearings.

I like the clamp rod mount on yours. I will me modifying mine to accept a 1" rod...

Thanks
William

Originally Posted by WillWilly

So a couple questions:

On the 8 horizontal bearings for the TA, was one of yours non adjustable? On mine, the second from the right on the operator side bearing pin is not eccentric and didn't have a nut on the bottom. Not sure if this was a static point for adjusting, or simply a replacement pin for some reason.

What brand of bearings did you use? I found NOS Timken but I'm not paying $50+ dollars for each. I'm breaking from my rule for using only NOS Timken, and going with ND's (??, no doubt Chinese) bearings.

I like the clamp rod mount on yours. I will me modifying mine to accept a 1" rod...

Thanks
William

Yes, one of my horizontal bearings was pinned with no eccentric or nut. It is a loose press fit and pops out with some minor persuasion. I believe it serves as a positional reference for the rest of the bearings. I used a brass rod as a punch to drive it out. I bought double shielded bearings from zoro. They were of Chinese manufacture but given the application, function and consequence of bearing failure, i am comfortable with that choice. Also, i'm of the opinion that not all Chinese products are substandard quality.

Originally Posted by marka12161

Yes, one of my horizontal bearings was pinned with no eccentric or nut. It is a loose press fit and pops out with some minor persuasion. I believe it serves as a positional reference for the rest of the bearings. I used a brass rod as a punch to drive it out. I bought double shielded bearings from zoro. They were of Chinese manufacture but given the application, function and consequence of bearing failure, i am comfortable with that choice. Also, i'm of the opinion that not all Chinese products are substandard quality.

I did the same with my "reference" pin.

I'm not opposed to China manufactured products, but wanted to attempt to stay true to the Timkenized theme. It isn't possable with these smaller bearings.

I recieved my bearings today and have no doubt they will perform as required.

I have quite a bit of cleaning left on the TA base, with several layers of bad paint and grease. I have had it soaking for two days now. It is close.

Im waiting for my shipment of replacement hardware, cap screws, countersink screws, 12mm x 0.010" washer shims to replace the original copper brass.

I have my TA base assembled, new bearings, wipers, ready to do bench adjustment on the vetical bearings, larger bearings that keep the glide level.

I could use advise on this step. Theory, process. Anything to minimize me guessing. I understand the concept but having a hard time determining the best way of doing this. I have all the bearings at their lowest adjustment. Just not sure how to get to the point the glide is level and all the bearings making equal contact.

I would post pictures but I have yet figured a way to do that on my phone. (Forum app). If you can diecrt me how to do that, it would make posts much easier and woul even like to add a short video at times.

Happy Thanksgiving.

I figured out how to add photos from my phone. Use the full site rather than app.

Much easier.

Originally Posted by WillWilly

I figured out how to add photos from my phone. Use the full site rather than app.

Much easier.

Looks good. The irregularly shaped casting is a pain to clean. As i recall, i proceeded as follows with the bearing adjustment. Starting with the lower (vertical) bearings:

1. Adjust all eccentrics until all the lower bearings are on their lowest point of adjustment.

2. adjust the four innermost bearings until all four of them bear on the sliding section and there is no rocking corner to corner of the rectangle formed by the four innermost bearings

3. Slide the unit to one end such that six of the eight lower bearings bear on the sliding part. adjust the tow end bearings such that all six roll when the sliding section is moved back and forth.

4 move the sliding section to the other end and repeat

5 For the horizontal bearings, adjust the side with the fixed position bearing such that the gap along the all bearings is equal

6 adjust the other side such that all bearings bear on the sliding surface and there is no binding

that's how i did it anyway

Originally Posted by marka12161

Looks good. The irregularly shaped casting is a pain to clean. As i recall, i proceeded as follows with the bearing adjustment. Starting with the lower (vertical) bearings:

1. Adjust all eccentrics until all the lower bearings are on their lowest point of adjustment.

2. adjust the four innermost bearings until all four of them bear on the sliding section and there is no rocking corner to corner of the rectangle formed by the four innermost bearings

3. Slide the unit to one end such that six of the eight lower bearings bear on the sliding part. adjust the tow end bearings such that all six roll when the sliding section is moved back and forth.

4 move the sliding section to the other end and repeat

5 For the horizontal bearings, adjust the side with the fixed position bearing such that the gap along the all bearings is equal

6 adjust the other side such that all bearings bear on the sliding surface and there is no binding

that's how i did it anyway

Well I wasn't far off. That's almost exactly what I did. I have no knocking transitioning from 8 to 6 bearings on either side, horizontal or vertical. I have a very slight rubbing on the cover plate after installing but I'm not going to start over on the horizontals. It is such a slight rubbing that it is barely noticeable.

Still on the look-out for a clamp.

Thanks so much for your advise. I feel much better with my results.

William