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  1. #121
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    Quote Originally Posted by marka12161 View Post
    My machine suffers from all the same conditions.
    Looks good from my house...

  2. #122
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    Thank you for documenting this so well.

    I, and undoubtedly many others, appreciate the time and effort it takes to break stride in work to take document quality pics.

    Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk

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  4. #123
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    Quote Originally Posted by marka12161 View Post
    I can send detailed dimensions on my TA bracket if you need them
    Another owner of a 16CY that needs this bracket. I'd be most appreciative if I could get a copy of those dimensions.

  5. #124
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    I'll take those dimensions and post them in a second thread

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    Quote Originally Posted by marka12161 View Post
    I'll take those dimensions and post them in a second thread
    Thanks so much Mark. Look forward to it!

  7. #126
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    Another small win. I had to make a new latch for the cross slide cover.

    20191219_092024.jpg
    Last edited by WillWilly; 12-19-2019 at 11:48 AM.

  8. #127
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    I just finished the compound rebuild, Sorry, no pictures, and there was really nothing wrong other than it was stuck and appears to have not been used much at all. The gib and ways on the compound are near perfect, little to no wear and the gib is at is highest adjustment. There was some back lash that was easily taken up with a 0.001" shim behind the gear on the acme screw. All that is left is the back lash in the acme nut which is a consistent 0.006". That is good enough.

    It has been a frustrating week for lathe rebuild. I'm now on the saddle and mainly the cross slide and gib. As mentioned I planned on shimming the gib (0.028") but I really want to have the top of the saddle, cross slide and gib rebuilt properly.

    This gets me into areas far beyond my equipment and abilities. As I see it, I need the top of the saddle dove tales and surfaces, cross slide, and a new gib machined so I can add Turcite and scrap in myself. I have spoken with the local professionals and they don't even want to quote. Not worth their time I guess.

    So I'm on the hunt for someone that does this work. Of course I understand this is not cheap but at this point, I want to dip my toe in the deep end and see how much this could be.

    If you have any advise to offer, please do not hesitate.

  9. #128
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnoder View Post
    Maybe - but probably not - I'll take my 16 CW X 102 apart someday. Had it about twenty years, fixed the stuff that was important, like the cross slide. Its been a marvelous helper-outer. One owner from Houston Light & Power - they gave $5775 for it new in August of 1946 - almost as much as a house cost then.

    Sure, it looks crappy with its grungy green paint, but that is the least of my concerns
    John,

    This is where I am at with my lathe, scraping in the cross slide. I like your approach and have actually ordered a 12"x18" surface stone to at least quantify how bad the wear is on my cross slide.

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    Will:
    I'll suggest the following, simply because the cross-slide is easy to access and to measure for inaccuracy in travel, backlash etc.:

    I'd shim the gib, reassemble, and set up clearances.. Run the cross slide full travel.. I'd suspect [if it has significant wear] you will find it gets snug to tight at each end of full travel.. Due of course to being worn mostly in the near-center of travel, where usually most work is done.

    If you are lucky, with the gib adjusted to 'zero' the wear in the middle, you find the tightness at the extreme ends of travel to not be too tight to live with.

    If you have already run such an experiment and it was posted in the past I apologize for the redundant suggestion.

    With this experiment done, you then can determine first if there will be a significant improvement in accuracy and operation of your lathe, and balance that against the costs you find from your research into the costs of a full regrind and scraping.

    You will definitely learn more about the existing wear on you lathe, and will appreciate the results of a regrind and scraping if you do go ahead with that operation.

    Thanks for documenting your work on this project.. !!

    DualValve

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    Quote Originally Posted by DualValve View Post
    Will:
    I'll suggest the following, simply because the cross-slide is easy to access and to measure for inaccuracy in travel, backlash etc.:

    I'd shim the gib, reassemble, and set up clearances.. Run the cross slide full travel.. I'd suspect [if it has significant wear] you will find it gets snug to tight at each end of full travel.. Due of course to being worn mostly in the near-center of travel, where usually most work is done.

    If you are lucky, with the gib adjusted to 'zero' the wear in the middle, you find the tightness at the extreme ends of travel to not be too tight to live with.

    If you have already run such an experiment and it was posted in the past I apologize for the redundant suggestion.

    With this experiment done, you then can determine first if there will be a significant improvement in accuracy and operation of your lathe, and balance that against the costs you find from your research into the costs of a full regrind and scraping.

    You will definitely learn more about the existing wear on you lathe, and will appreciate the results of a regrind and scraping if you do go ahead with that operation.

    Thanks for documenting your work on this project.. !!

    DualValve
    Been through that exact operation. There will be gib adjustments along the ends of throw. I measured the wear at 0.004" nearly centard on the flats, assuming the very ends are the highs, and the top between the dove tails is not warn, which mine is, and in places it shouldnt be worn... Using pin guages and measuring the dove tales, the I get 0.002" in thd center. Regardless, that is a mile to hand scrape...

    So, two options, shim it, scrape in the big highs and go with it. Or fix it. As mentioned, im dipping my toe in this pool. I could just plan on my first vertical mill purchase to be big enough to do this myself. It may be cheaper.

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  13. #131
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    Quote Originally Posted by WillWilly View Post
    Using pin guages and measuring the dove tales, the I get 0.002" in thd center. Regardless, that is a mile to hand scrape...
    Well no, nothing of the sort.

    You don't start out by trying to deliver "X" points per inch in an artist's perfect pattern for oil retention, nor hitting a half-thou or better deviation from perfect.

    It is imperfect NOW. Most any careful work, it will be LESS imperfect, each iteration. There is the improvement to be had even if yah QUIT early-on.

    The only "hard part" is not scraping away MORE than two thou, and not scraping the surface further out of line or plane than the wear has already pushed it.

    Give it a go. Start slow. Check your progress.

    Take an expert only a few minutes, but even an amatuer who is simply average-craftsman cautious has it DONE in an hour or several, then on the the next piddly little fire as needs pissed-on.

    If yah want a mill, go for that as well... but yah can't use THIS little nuisance as an excuse, and yah prolly can't afford mill, planer, nor bedway grinder as could do the whole bed!


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    Quote Originally Posted by thermite View Post
    Well no, nothing of the sort.

    You don't start out by trying to deliver "X" points per inch in an artist's perfect pattern for oil retention, nor hitting a half-thou or better deviation from perfect.

    It is imperfect NOW. Most any careful work, it will be LESS imperfect, each iteration. There is the improvement to be had even if yah QUIT early-on.

    The only "hard part" is not scraping away MORE than two thou, and not scraping the surface further out of line or plane than the wear has already pushed it.

    Give it a go. Start slow. Check your progress.

    Take an expert only a few minutes, but even an amatuer who is simply average-craftsman cautious has it DONE in an hour or several, then on the the next piddly little fire as needs pissed-on.

    If yah want a mill, go for that as well... but yah can't use THIS little nuisance as an excuse, and yah prolly can't afford mill, planer, nor bedway grinder as could do the whole bed!

    I much appriciate the vote of confidence. This amateur is all about giving it a go. Im making a list of the tools I need and moving towards making it less imperfect.

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    Quote Originally Posted by WillWilly View Post
    I much appriciate the vote of confidence. This amateur is all about giving it a go. Im making a list of the tools I need and moving towards making it less imperfect.
    Think it through. It actually isn't a very large area. Just kinda "awkward".

    Light-bulb clicks on as to why it won't take as long as all that?

    You ain't doin' four-foot of wide-Vee and flat on the BED.

    For practice, do the compound FIRST. Similar deal. Dovetails & gib. But doesn't matter as much if imperfect.

    It swivels, y'see.

    The cross OTOH? That needs to meet a specific geometrical goal.

    "Cross".

    Not sidegodlin.

    So long as you can MEASURE well.. and OFTEN? You'll learn to correct as you go and won't ever get all that far off track anyway.

    Scraping isn't hard. Just TEDIOUS as f**k.

    You do "tedious"? You'll make a good scraper hand outta yerself. The goal is right in front of you. In 3-D, yet.

    Lathe won't care if you used Carbide, HSS, or HCS made from a common file. It won't care if you have a dovetail SE or only an ignorant steel rule. It won't care if you have a surface plate or transfer marking media, either.

    Measure. Think. Correct. Repeat until good enough. Next in line, please?

    Can't find anything BETTER to do for forty-year than make a religion out of a simple task?

    Yah can make half the known universe understand "tedious", and far too well.


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  17. #134
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    Default Are the cross-slide ways hardened?

    Are the cross slide ways hardened? If not the scraping will be fairly easy.
    A good sharp HSS scraper will do an admirable job on normal iron.

    I will suggest something else: Do you have an automotive machine shop nearby? Most automotive machine shops have a cylinder-head resurfacing machine.. and a good straight-edge to check cylinder heads before and after for being flat.

    If you take your saddle off the lathe and take it to the machine shop, and use their straight edge on the flat-ways. This way, you might be able to get a good 'visual' look at the amount of wear in the cross-slide ways.. Of course there would be matching wear on the slide itself. I would think both would have a sort of dip in the middle?

    You can purchase a short straight edge for a reasonable price on Ebay Using the straight edge and a back-light you can see the gap.. Then scrape and again check with the straight edge. .001, .0015 and .002" feeler gauges are also helpful.
    Like Thermite wrote: it's tedious. but it does get the job done.. And won't cost a lot.

    First thing I'd check, is take a nice sharp mill file and see just how hard those flat-ways are.. You might be surprised at how fast they can be made flat 'again'.

    DualValve

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    Some good news. I am taking the saddle to a local machinist to have the cross slide machined and add Trucite. I think this is the best option considering the amount of wear.

    saddle-2.jpg

    saddle-3.jpg

    I'll post some pictures of the result...

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    Hi Will, So what is the plan? To machine the flat on the slide and it's mating surface on the saddle, then glue on a piece of Turcite on the underside of the slide to bring the slide app off of the saddle between the ways and dovetails ?
    And also to run a clean up pass on the dovetail surfaces and the gib, then add a piece of Turcite to the gib?

    I think this is what was done on my rebuilt 1954 square dial. When I took it apart to clean and inspect the way-oiling system I noticed the cross-slide gib had a piece of red plastic-like material glued onto it.. And the rest of the flat and vee-ways had a black molded-in-place material applied, which I assume is Moglice.

    Looking forward to the update.

    DualValve.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DualValve View Post
    Hi Will, So what is the plan? To machine the flat on the slide and it's mating surface on the saddle, then glue on a piece of Turcite on the underside of the slide to bring the slide app off of the saddle between the ways and dovetails ?
    And also to run a clean up pass on the dovetail surfaces and the gib, then add a piece of Turcite to the gib?

    I think this is what was done on my rebuilt 1954 square dial. When I took it apart to clean and inspect the way-oiling system I noticed the cross-slide gib had a piece of red plastic-like material glued onto it.. And the rest of the flat and vee-ways had a black molded-in-place material applied, which I assume is Moglice.

    Looking forward to the update.

    DualValve.
    That is exactly the plan.

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    It's great that you found someone to take on the job. I suppose the job is a lot of fussing and setup for not all that much cutting, much less production of several pieces.. So there is not a lot of profit for a shop that lives on production.

    Looking forward to seeing the results and your feedback with how the new and precise cross-slide feels !

    DualValve

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    Quote Originally Posted by WillWilly View Post
    That is exactly the plan.
    You can get the proper height by measuring from the top of the cross slide to the top of the cross feed nut then checking that against the thickness of the cross slide at that point. You'll likely have to put the cross slide on parallels in the dovetails temporarily to get clearance. My 10EE came in pretty close any didn't need much scraping to come in, but I was careful with the glue joint, using a 'precision' tool to lay down the 2216 epoxy in the specified .005" thickness.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rke[pler View Post
    You can get the proper height by measuring from the top of the cross slide to the top of the cross feed nut then checking that against the thickness of the cross slide at that point. You'll likely have to put the cross slide on parallels in the dovetails temporarily to get clearance. My 10EE came in pretty close any didn't need much scraping to come in, but I was careful with the glue joint, using a 'precision' tool to lay down the 2216 epoxy in the specified .005" thickness.
    Understand! The bottom of the cross slide where the nut sits will need to be machined as well as not to change the height of the nut. The glue joint is my biggest concern making consistent. I don't own a camel back reference to apply even pressure during curing so I'm going to have to improvise. What an adventure... I do o enjoy learning the ins and outs...

    Thank you all for your advise! It keeps me on the straight and narrow.


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