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Monarch Identification, Safety, and Dumb Questions

alfreema

Plastic
Joined
Jul 4, 2020
I just got an old Monarch Lathe with a working original electric motor. Since it runs on 3-phase I added a cord to it, so I can plug it into a VFD I normally use for my 3-phase planer. Worked great, and it's up and running!

But ... I don't know nuttin' about lathes. So ...

1) Any idea what model/year this is? From looking around on here it seems like it might be close to a Model A, but it's not belt driven.

20200704_082958.jpg

20200704_094222.jpg

20200704_094435.jpg

(sorry these pics are sideways)

2) From a safety/care perspective, what should I take a look at before actually using the lathe? It spins up great and when I move the big lever to the side, the spindle turns just fine. But are there any hidden potential gotchas I should look for before I put it under stress?

3) Dumb Question 1 of many: The spindle is a big pipe with a thread on it. So I can screw the 3-chuck jaw to it, but how do I keep the 3-check jaw from spinning off, when it's on the spindle?

4) Dumb Question 2 of many to follow later: I see the levers to change gears, but I have no idea how to actually use them? Should I engage the spindle "a little" when changing gears, or should I change gears with power off, or ... ?

Thanks so much!
 
First safety: Go to YouTube and search for Lathe operation, Lathe Safety training etc. You need to see some form of basic Machine-use safety video or three.

Then regarding the spindle that is threaded: That can be an issue if you have a heavy chuck, and something heavy in the chuck an you stop or abruptly reversed the spindle direction. YES, a chuck can unthread and fall off the lathe and on your foot or feet, and then spin and roll around your shop floor..
SO: make sure that your chuck threads on securely and when it is fully threaded on, the chuck should seat it's hub agains the flat at the en of the spindle's threads. And this mating should be full contact, no dents, waves etc or the chuck will be easier to spin off.
In order for the chuck to spin off the lathe spindle must be stopped abruptly. or turing in reverse direction and the resistance from the tool bit cutting into your material is too great and it uses the chuck to unthread.
SO: No abrupt braking
No heavy cutting in reverse direction .

I would only change gear ratios when the lathe is stopped. You will learn to put your right hand on the chuck, to work it back and forth, this allows the drive-dogs of the gears to disengage. Then move the lever to your desired position. it might need you to rotate the chuck/spindle while holding and pushing the gear lever toward the desired position, and when the gear dog-clutches line up, the gear lever will drop into place. You are pushing a metal tab into a slot in an adjacent gear's slot. So you need to hand turn the chuck/spindle to get the tab and slot to line up. Once you've done this a few times it will make sense.

Your lathe is roughly pre=1930. it has 'plain bearings' That is: they are not roller bearings or ball bearings, They are poured babbitt bearings that are then bored to the correct diameter spindle bearing surface. This type of bearing has to have regular lubrication, Unlike a ball or roller bearing if this 'plain bearing' is run dry, it will heat up and be ruined.
So figure out how to remove the top cover on the lathe, and inspect it for proper lubricant level, and find the method for getting oil to the spindle bearings.

I can see that the 'Lead Screw' which is a long threaded rod that comes out of the lower gearbox, where there is a big collar for the lead-screw, but the long threaded shaft is missing. This shaft is used for cutting threads using your lathe.

You have a bit to learn but it's fun, rewarding to make you own parts and is a lot of fun to learn how to use it safely.

Good luck with your 'new' Lathe !!

DualValve
 
Your lathe is roughly pre=1930. it has 'plain bearings' That is: they are not roller bearings or ball bearings, They are poured babbitt bearings that are then bored to the correct diameter spindle bearing surface. This type of bearing has to have regular lubrication, Unlike a ball or roller bearing if this 'plain bearing' is run dry, it will heat up and be ruined.
So figure out how to remove the top cover on the lathe, and inspect it for proper lubricant level, and find the method for getting oil to the spindle bearings.

To expand a little more on this, do not use the VFD to over speed the spindle, plain bearings need oil and slower RPM's
 
SO: make sure that your chuck threads on securely and when it is fully threaded on, the chuck should seat it's hub agains the flat at the en of the spindle's threads. And this mating should be full contact, no dents, waves etc or the chuck will be easier to spin off.

Excellent, now I know I wasn't missing anything.

I would only change gear ratios when the lathe is stopped. ... So you need to hand turn the chuck/spindle to get the tab and slot to line up.

This description makes sense to me. Can't wait to try it when I am back at the shop.

Your lathe is roughly pre=1930. it has 'plain bearings' ... They are poured babbitt bearings that are then bored to the correct diameter spindle bearing surface. ... So figure out how to remove the top cover on the lathe, and inspect it for proper lubricant level, and find the method for getting oil to the spindle bearings.

In the first picture you can see two oiler cups up on top of the machine. Are those cups oiling the bearings you are talking about, or is there a concern somewhere else? Speaking of ... what type of oil should I use in those cups?

I can see that the 'Lead Screw' which is a long threaded rod that comes out of the lower gearbox, where there is a big collar for the lead-screw, but the long threaded shaft is missing. This shaft is used for cutting threads using your lathe.

Right, so I was going to ask about the missing Acme screw, but didn't want to ramble on. Can you tell me what specs the missing Acme screw should be so I can order one? Once I have it, I will obviously start asking how to adapt it to the machine, but in the mean time I could at least start trying to track a replacement down. The lead screw is working nicely, so I can engage the apron?-mechanism thingy (sorry not sure what the whole tool holder mechanism is called). I am hoping to get the thread cutter restored.
 
To expand a little more on this, do not use the VFD to over speed the spindle, plain bearings need oil and slower RPM's

Well just to make sure I am not doing something bad, I am only using the VFD for two reasons:

1) to conveniently supply 3-phase at 60hz to the original motor. I can reduce the frequency to the motor to slow it down, but I cannot (or at least will not) go over 60hz. Seem okay?

2) to give myself an e-stop

Hmm, is there a really inexpensive tool out there that I can use to find out how fast my spindle is rotating? Seems like I should probably verify that my spindle is rotating at expected speeds relative to the brass placard's gear settings.
 
Well just to make sure I am not doing something bad, I am only using the VFD for two reasons:

1) to conveniently supply 3-phase at 60hz to the original motor. I can reduce the frequency to the motor to slow it down, but I cannot (or at least will not) go over 60hz. Seem okay?

2) to give myself an e-stop

Hmm, is there a really inexpensive tool out there that I can use to find out how fast my spindle is rotating? Seems like I should probably verify that my spindle is rotating at expected speeds relative to the brass placard's gear settings.

#1 Depends on your motor bearings. Plain bearings there also not to over 60hz is a good practice. If the motor has ball bearings then over 60hz should be fine in lower gears, just do not exceed max spindle RPM. Check bearing caps often for over heating if you are close to max speed until you get more comfortable with the machine.
 
There are contact and non contact tachometers for checking your actual spindle speeds. While you are on youtube getting some lessons, do a search for "lathe accident" there are plenty, most look painful. Every time you go to use lathe, think about those vids.
 
Its a gear head Model A from the teens / early twenties.

Its from the "Lot Number" days, so has no Monarch serial. None-the-less, Monarch may be able to tell you in general how old it is

Here is a raggedy old pub dedicated to these oldies

Thanks to Greg Menke and John Legge for making this happen

http://pounceatron.dreamhosters.com/docs/monarch/monarch-lathe-brochure.pdf

Since you "know nuttin" you might get some generic good out of this pub

http://vintagemachinery.org/pubs/1617/5795.pdf

good luck
 
Its a gear head Model A from the teens / early twenties.
Awesome! I wasn't sure if the ones with gearheads were also Model A.



Ooof, I found this scan elsewhere on this site, but thought it didn't apply to me. I didn't make it down far enough to realize that there are a lot more scans than just for the belt driven lathe at the top. Thanks!


Okay, yeah I had a hard time putting this down last night. Very helpful, thanks a ton!

Oh, is the "apron" the entire mechanism that slides up and down the rails, or just the front face of the mechanism? I assume the rails on a lathe are called "ways" like on a milling machine?

Sorry for all the noob questions. Kind of embarrassing but I'd rather be educated than prideful. :)
 
1) Lathe was made between 1915 and 1925.
2) Agree to search You tube for safe operation of a Lathe. Metal cutting machines are powerful enough to kill you! Treat them with respect and well maintenance, with all guards in place.
3) Going from memory but the threads are opposite to forward running for the spindle so the chuck tightens from the stopping inertia.
4) Always stop the spindle before changing headstock speeds or the quick change gear box. Again find You Tube video on how to run a metal cutting lathe.
This is a very old machine that does not have modern safety devices. Go slow, do not wear loose clothing when running the machine. These old machines will eat long hair - all types.

Keep everything well lubed and educate yourself as you have fun with it.

John
 
You did good

Oh, is the "apron" the entire mechanism that slides up and down the rails, or just the front face of the mechanism? I assume the rails on a lathe are called "ways" like on a milling machine?

Apron is the front hanging down - sort of like that "garment"

Ways indeedy

Here is one of Harry A. Miller's (Indy Car engine maker) shops with a bigger Monarch than yours. Its was described as "completely worn out" at the 1933 auction - probably from carving out all those jewel like crank shafts

Millers Monarch.jpg
 
...
Oh, is the "apron" the entire mechanism that slides up and down the rails, or just the front face of the mechanism? I assume the rails on a lathe are called "ways" like on a milling machine?
...
The unit that moves on the ways is called the "carriage". The H-shaped piece of the carriage that actually sits on the ways is called the "saddle". The box-like unit that hangs from the front of the carriage is called the "apron".

There are two types of ways and two set of ways on a typical engine lathe. Most Monarch's have a V-shaped way in the front and a flat way in the back for the carriage to slide on. Inside that set of ways are the ways for the tailstock, which typically has its flat way in front and its V-way in the back. Other lathes may use a different type of way; for example, the Hardinge HLV uses a dovetail way, which is the type typically found on milling machines.

Here's a couple of diagrams that may help:
Diagram of a Lathe with explanantion of components
Lathe & Mill Nomenclature

Cal
 
I made chips today! Thanks so much for everyone helping me get the courage to fire it up and try it out. Made sure the chuck was on nice and flat and spun it up.

I think I will build a tachometer from an Arduino so that I can use a computer screen for all the visual stuff (I want to add digital positioning at some point, but I want to have the positioning and tachy information on a computer screen instead of using DROs).

One question, the brass plaque is showing that I can get a spindle speed of a little over 420 RPM with the machine. Is that fast enough to rough out aluminum, or is that a disaster waiting to happen?
 
I made chips today! Thanks so much for everyone helping me get the courage to fire it up and try it out. Made sure the chuck was on nice and flat and spun it up.

I think I will build a tachometer from an Arduino so that I can use a computer screen for all the visual stuff (I want to add digital positioning at some point, but I want to have the positioning and tachy information on a computer screen instead of using DROs).

One question, the brass plaque is showing that I can get a spindle speed of a little over 420 RPM with the machine. Is that fast enough to rough out aluminum, or is that a disaster waiting to happen?

The Brass plate would be for the original drive (motor or overhead belt), it is hard to tell how much your machine was modified without more photos. You might need to do some math to verify the actual top speed. This lathe has plain metal bearing which will limit your top speed, and always make sure the oilers are full before running. Cutting Al should be okay if your feed is slow enough and have a sharp tool. This is best to test with some AL stock and try different speeds and feeds that give best results.

A machine this old with DRO and HMI would be pretty wild to see, but it will also tell you how much play you have.

John
 
The Brass plate would be for the original drive (motor or overhead belt), it is hard to tell how much your machine was modified without more photos.

I believe it's all bone stock, including the original motor. The only thing I can see that was modified are some pans that have been bolted on to protect the motor and part of the carriage slide. Oh, and an electrical box around the motor's wire housing.

You might need to do some math to verify the actual top speed.

Well I think I should buy a cheapy tachometer, like @dalmatiangirl61 was talking about just to verify.

This lathe has plain metal bearing which will limit your top speed, and always make sure the oilers are full before running.

Oh yes! They are full, but what type of oil should I use to replenish them?
 
Alfreema,
Any oil is better than no oil.. IF you can get machine oil, not automotive type oils for your lathe, go that route.. If I may be so bold as to make some recommendations regarding oils.. I'd go with mobil velcolite #1 for the spindle bearing and Mobil vactra #2 for the ways and such.. Contact Monarch to see what they suggest for the head gear box.. ( you probably wouldn't be to far off with Mobil DTE heavy medium circulating oil but this is just an educated guess) You can probably get a gallon of each from MSC or some such supply house.. Should be enough for a couple of years... You may want to use cutting oil.. that you can get at most local plumbing shops ( or MSC if you prefer) I've used alot of Ridgid 'nu-clear' and their dark cutting oils.. ( dark is great for cutting threads )
Hope this gives you some guidance
Stay safe
Calvin b Haxton
 
As far as internal head stock, may be one that you lift cover and squirt some oil on moving parts - like the contemporary Heavy Duty LeBlond

I don't know if Monarch used such "dry head" ideas or not. This 1914 bit says oil bath in head stock

Monarch Machine Tool Co. - 1914 Ad - 8 Speed Geared Head Motor and Pulley Driven Lathes | VintageMachinery.org

And in that case I would subscribe to this

you probably wouldn't be to far off with Mobil DTE heavy medium circulating oil but this is just an educated guess
 
I agree that Mobil DTE heavy medium circulating oil would be a good choice. Back when this lathe was made, there wasn't any specialty oils.

Could post more photos of the headstock and drive motor. From what I see it looks like the motor might have been added later.

Getting a cheap tach will work. I look for no expense solutions first.
 
I have a line on a Monarch orphan lathe. Anyone have any ideas on a model? I can find no ID Plate, or S/N on the bed.
It is a 220V 3-Phase beast. Thanks for any help. I will start a new thread if I can identify this machine.
Lathe Front.jpg
 

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