Monarch Lathe AA 1942
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  1. #1
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    Default Monarch Lathe AA 1942

    Hello,
    I have a 1942 aa 16 inch monarch lathe. I am in need of some information on the square bar that rides along the front that actuates the clutch. My lathe doesn't have these pieces any more. From pictures it looks like a square bar rides on a collar and connects to a right 90 degree box that has a shaft that travels under the bed and connects to backside lever and that lever actuates the clutch. What size square bar? Is it actually a small gear box that connects to square shaft and sits right next to change gear box?

    If anyone is parting out a lathe with these parts please let me know.

    Also I mistackingly purchase a steady rest for this that is several inches too broad for my lathe. It is however a monarch 16 inch steady rest. I have it for sale for what I have in it $305 and I can send pictures if interested. Of course I also still need a steady rest of the proper size.my-monarch-lathe.jpgimg-1104.jpgimg-1103.jpgimg-1105.jpgimg-1106.jpg

  2. #2
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    that actuates the clutch
    Steady rest likely for later 14 - all of which swung at least 16 1/2 - that is why the center height is 8 1/4"

    As near as I know your clutch lever is the one located highest on the head stock

    Three remaining speed change levers show that it is the eight speed headstock

    I seriously doubt the AA in the photos is any "newer" than early thirties - but I can always be wrong

    Good time lines here - for an example, if you have threaded spindle nose instead of Monarch designed FLANGED spindle nose, lathe predates September 1929.

    http://vintagemachinery.org/pubs/2103/17574.pdf

    Serial stamped in between two front ways at right end would be interesting , too

    Thumbnails = My right angle box looks like so on my 1946 CW 16 X 102. I doubt your AA ever had such there. A way to check is to see if the two tapped holes are there in the bottom face of the bed.

    Link is more like the lathe in the photos and is dated 1930. Thanks to John Legge and Greg Menke

    http://pounceatron.dreamhosters.com/...n-127-1930.pdf
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails dcp_0285.jpg   dcp_0286.jpg   dcp_0287.jpg   dcp_0288.jpg  
    Last edited by johnoder; 09-13-2018 at 11:22 AM.

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    Johnoder
    Thanks so much for the info and pictures. Do you have pictures of the part that attaches to the carriage and the holder with collet at the end of the bed. Also what size square shaft does it take? The markings at the end of the ways states”Inspected by AFO lot # AA 3039”.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ksdavid View Post
    Johnoder
    Thanks so much for the info and pictures. Do you have pictures of the part that attaches to the carriage and the holder with collet at the end of the bed. Also what size square shaft does it take? The markings at the end of the ways states”Inspected by AFO lot # AA 3039”.
    3039 is from 1929.

    If you read thru my post and look at the linked info you will see your lathe had none of that clutch actuating stuff - like my photos.

    It has the clutch lever up on the head stock only

    My lathe doesn't have these pieces any more.
    It never had them

    Walk around back and I would expect you would see nothing back there to hook up any linkage to if you took the clutch linkage back there

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    It has both the lever on top and a linkage point on the back side as well as marks on the side of the carriage and end of th

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    It has both the lever on top and a shift linkage on back as well as marks on the carriage and end of bed where these items were attached

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    I will try to get some more pictures this weekend. At some point I may try to fabricate something similar that’s why I am wanting to know what size the square shaft is and any pictures anyone may have of the carriage and end of bed pieces that the square shaft passes through, as the monarch manual has poor photo quality of any of this.

  8. #8
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    I'll check my square shaft for you, maybe later today - ON EDIT - square shaft on my CW 16 is .750"

    Thumbnail is view of bracket that holds up far end. Bracket bolts to bottom of bearing block for lead screw and feed rod

    Bracket contains a bush with a square hole, and has a thin cover held on with screws on its outer end

    Two other thumbnails relate to pieces. Note there are TWO items that bolt to BOTTOM face of bed - the gear box and its related "pillow block" - gear box front and "pillow block" rear

    (On Edit - Item 32 counterweight is a revelation to me - never had one - no wonder the clutch lever does not feel right )
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails monarch-bracket.jpg   manual-scan-crop_17.jpg   manual-scan_17.jpg  
    Last edited by johnoder; 09-14-2018 at 07:15 PM.

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    Hello there ksdavid and johnoder,

    I'm a newbie posting to the forums but have been lurking around for a good while learning. When I saw found this thread I found some commonalities with the Monarch lathe I picked up a couple of weeks ago that is very similar to the one ksdavid posted the pic of in the original post. Mine has some oddities that have me scratching my head regarding what model and vintage it is. So I thought I'd reply to the thread to see if either of you had an opinion on it.

    There is not now nor does it appear there ever was a model/nameplate on the machine anywhere as far as I can tell. The only indication to any model designation I've found is the inspection stamp on the end of the bed which is stamped "Inspected by (initials) Lot #B2458". That would indicate 1928 production from what I've read but I'm confused about the "B" because everything I've seen that referenced a Monarch B model was a cone pulley lathe. I will attach the only two pictures I have of it right now which were the crummy pics from the auction. I did some quick Photoshop editing to try and eliminate all the background clutter that made it hard to see in the poor lighting.wvmotorider-monarch-lathe-front.jpgwvmotorider-monarch-lathe-rear.jpg

    My headstock and controls, quick-change gearbox, and tail-end leg are all identical to yours. However, there are quite a few differences as well.

    - Mine appears to have come from the factory with a headstock mounted 5hp motor, because the head-end base is not the casting that was made for the motor-in-leg configuration like you have. Mine has a hinged cast iron door on the front(broken unfortunately).

    - The bed on mine appears to be 2ft or so longer than yours.

    - My carriage is a fair bit different in that there are no cast-in "troughs" in the front wings on the left and right of the cross slide; just solid blocks of cast-iron.

    - My apron controls are just slightly different as well. Yours appears to have some other knob or boss between the half-nut lever and the cross slide feed lever that mine does not have and my feed levers for the cross slide and carriage are a good bit beefier than what yours appear to be. I also have a thread dial on the right hand side of the carriage.

    - There appear to be some minor differences in the tailstock.

    - My chip pan is not the typical "step up" type that seems to be ubiquitous on all the other Monarchs of this era I've seen, but is instead a flat pan. (more correctly said, it USED to be flat)

    - Though it is hard to see in the photos because it is partially detached, mine does have the square shaft, 90 deg. gearbox, and apron mounted clutch engagement lever you guys were discussing above. However the style of the gear box does not look like the one johnoder posted. It's more of a square cast cover over the bevel gears than it is an enclosed casting like his picture shows.

    - Mine also has most of an original Monarch taper attachment on it. There are at least a couple of parts I can tell are missing, but I haven't gotten into that assembly yet.

    The biggest question I have about the machine that has me scratching my head is the spindle nose. Though the picture makes it look like it has a flanged end on the spindle, that is actually a shop made (poorly made at that) adapter on a spindle nose that is partially threaded and partially tapered! It's also a size that I have not found any reference to being a standard configuration. The threaded portion is 3-1/2" x 4 tpi for about 2" long and the end is tapered for about another inch. I haven't verified the bore yet, but it appears to be something like MT5 or MT6.

    That was a lot of rambling, but if either of you would have any thoughts or insights about it I'd be all ears. And if ksdavid needs any measurements or pics of the clutch engagement lever mechanism I'd be happy to get those for you.

    Thanks for taking the time to read.

    Evan Dailey
    Ona, WV

  10. #10
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    Welcome Evan - great post for first timer

    B just means larger than A - 18" nominal swing. B may have also included 20". Note thumbnail drawing number also has a B

    Here is the link again on design progress

    http://vintagemachinery.org/pubs/2103/17574.pdf

    I can imagine some experimenting occurred between straight threaded spindle nose (as in thumbnail) and proprietary flanged spindle nose
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails monarch-cone-spindle-partial.jpg  

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    Thanks for the welcome johnoder. I have copies of all the applicable Monarch literature from Vintage Machinery and have poured through all of it numerous times picking up bits and pieces here and there. I was figuring my machine came from a transition period in their development because it has some features of later models, such as the "Timkenized" spindle and gearbox as well as the control lever configuration more in line with the mid 30's machines vs. most others from the late 20's. The single "B" was just throwing me off a bit because I had not run across any reference to that model designation for machines later than the cone pulley heads; everything else I've seen of the same era has either been "AA" or "BB". Ultimately it doesn't really matter, it's just a curiosity.

    So being that my spindle nose is an oddball, would the recommendation be to simply make an adapter to fit it to convert to something more common for ease of attaching chucks? I'd really like to have it adapted to take D1-6 backing plates but thus far I have not run across any source of such an adapter for any threaded spindle. I don't have any expectation of finding anything that will fit off the shelf, but I haven't even seen anything that could be modified to fit. In the same auction I bought two Cushman chucks to use with it (a 15" 4-jaw and a 12" 3-jaw) but neither of them have backing plates on them. I'm sure I could just make custom backplates for each one to fit, but it would sure be nice to have the spindle set up for the standard cam-lock nose for any future tooling I acquire as well.

    Any Ideas or thoughts?

  12. #12
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    Standardized spindle noses such as D1 are generally part of spindle. Sure, one could be made, but involves lots of just so machining and then acquiring the cams to go in it, which are not cheap. A sort of far out way to go about this would be to acquire a nice condition D1-6" spindle and see about making its front end fit on my spindle nose. An issue related is that these no doubt have some level of heat treat that may very well make this very difficult to machine during alteration - I mean you DO WANT perfect concentricity when you are done screwing it on - opposite from a back plate that get its concentriciity fixed (as part of chuck fitting up) AFTER screwing it on

    ASA/ASME B5.9 Spindle Noses has all the drawings - including gage drawings

    Would make more sense to me to know everything about what I had so I could make a copy of it to use as a "gage" in making back plates


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