Monarch Mysteries - what are these holes for
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  1. #1
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    Default Monarch Mysteries - what are these holes for

    This is on a 1944 16 CY. I am new to machining and curious about the following things I encountered when refurbishing the lathe.

    #1 Saddle Hole
    This is a threaded blind hole in the face of the saddle that faces the headstock. What is it for?
    saddle-1.jpg


    #2 Tailstock Hole
    This is an unthreaded blind hole in the top of the tailstock. What is it for?
    tail-stock-3.jpg


    #3 Apron Oil Reservoir Filler?
    The pockets in the apron are filled with something like cotton thread. Was this thread-like material original from Monarch? The tailstock has a similar oil pocket but it had a felt pad in it. Would it be a good idea to replace this with the same wool felt that I am making new wipers from. I figure that the material is just there to provide a buffer for oil flowing from the saddle to the apron.
    apron-2.jpg

    #4 Embedment for Oil Line in Saddle
    The oil lines for the cross-slide ways are embedded in some sort of material that chips out easily. Any idea what this is? Plaster of Paris maybe? This is down in the trough that the cross-slide screw sets in.
    trough.jpgtrough.jpg

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    Ha, I was wondering about #1 on my 12ck just last week.

    Knowing Monarch, these holes have purpose.

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    #2 is the white lead dabber storage hole, to lube your dead canter, keep in mind live centers were not invented yet, Hi Hi...Phil

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    Quote Originally Posted by *D'B=6bk View Post
    This is on a 1944 16 CY. I am new to machining and curious about the following things I encountered when refurbishing the lathe.

    #1 Saddle Hole
    This is a threaded blind hole in the face of the saddle that faces the headstock. What is it for?
    saddle-1.jpg

    I have a CY as well and I think I can help on some.


    #2 Tailstock Hole
    This is an unthreaded blind hole in the top of the tailstock. What is it for?
    tail-stock-3.jpg


    #3 Apron Oil Reservoir Filler?
    The pockets in the apron are filled with something like cotton thread. Was this thread-like material original from Monarch? The tailstock has a similar oil pocket but it had a felt pad in it. Would it be a good idea to replace this with the same wool felt that I am making new wipers from. I figure that the material is just there to provide a buffer for oil flowing from the saddle to the apron.
    apron-2.jpg

    #4 Embedment for Oil Line in Saddle
    The oil lines for the cross-slide ways are embedded in some sort of material that chips out easily. Any idea what this is? Plaster of Paris maybe? This is down in the trough that the cross-slide screw sets in.
    trough.jpgtrough.jpg
    #1 I don't believe I have that one in my 1943 CY.

    #2 I do have that hole but I haven't figured out what that is for as well.

    #3 That is the oil reservoir for apron bearings and gears. I had the original cotton-like string in mine. I put felt in mine to simply retain oil in the well, like a wick. Yes, your tail stock should have a wool felt pad in the much larger well. Again I used a piece of thick felt. You need to make sure the copper lines are fully seated in the bottom of the apron wells or oil will not flow through.

    #4 Not sure exactly what this material is but it was also used in areas where there were deep casting flaws before being sprayed with primer filler at the factory. I have stripped my lathe for painting and found the same material in other areas. It holds the lines in place and not allow them to become damaged. I am using a fiber body filler to replace missing material. I also had to chip away loose material before filling.

    I have a picture if the felt I used in the tail stock well in "My CY 16 Winter Project" thread.

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    My Stock has the same whole and also two tapped holes on the flat below. The tapped holes I'm sure are not original. A light? Something mounted?
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails tail-stock-2.jpg   ts-base.jpg  

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    Mine does not have the 2 tapped holes near the base like yours. It was built in December 1944.

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    With your info I was able to find a video from Tubal-cain on the subject.

    YouTube

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    As Phil in Montana noted, #2 is the lead storage reservoir for lubricating dead centers. Nearly all pre-1950's lathes had them, but I've never seen one that had any lead in it. Some guys will use that hole as a mounting location for an indicator.

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    #1 is follow rest attach - (one of three)

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    Quote Originally Posted by *D'B=6bk View Post
    This is on a 1944 16 CY. I am new to machining and curious about the following things I encountered when refurbishing the lathe.

    #1 Saddle Hole
    This is a threaded blind hole in the face of the saddle that faces the headstock. What is it for?
    As mentioned for a leg on the follow rest.

    #2 Tailstock Hole
    This is an unthreaded blind hole in the top of the tailstock. What is it for?
    I also subscribe to the white lead dauber theory. The 10EE has the same but back near the quill handle.


    #3 Apron Oil Reservoir Filler?
    The pockets in the apron are filled with something like cotton thread. Was this thread-like material original from Monarch? The tailstock has a similar oil pocket but it had a felt pad in it. Would it be a good idea to replace this with the same wool felt that I am making new wipers from. I figure that the material is just there to provide a buffer for oil flowing from the saddle to the apron.
    Buffer for oil. Sometimes Monarch used felt, here it's just cotton waste.

    #4 Embedment for Oil Line in Saddle
    The oil lines for the cross-slide ways are embedded in some sort of material that chips out easily. Any idea what this is? Plaster of Paris maybe? This is down in the trough that the cross-slide screw sets in.
    Typically sulphur, common in the days before epoxy.

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    OK, Dauber. So now that I'm educated, someone needs to make a set for sale? I'll put that down as one of my first projects!

    Monarch CY Dauber! Only $39.95 free shipping!

    Learn something every day.

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    So for the Dauber, I contacted a gentleman that manufactures Daubers for other lathes. He had a drawing of a 10EE dauber that appears to work with my CY, 1/2" diameter well on the tailstock.

    He is going to draw up and see if he can manufacture.

    monarch-dauber.jpg

    manoarch-dauber-2.jpg

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    Quote Originally Posted by Phil in Montana View Post
    #2 is the white lead dabber storage hole, to lube your dead canter, keep in mind live centers were not invented yet, Hi Hi...Phil
    Cudda fooled me. Dawn of the 1960's ran a couple of already ancient fifty-inch War One or even pre-1900 lathes as had 'em.

    Called them "double spindle" lathes back in the day. One of 'em, the TS was even powered.

    One was a Niles Tool Works, the other a Shepard-Niles.

    Twinned 4-Way tool-posts as well.

    Wheels and axles for heavy rail were their meat, mine-haul rail in our day. There was - or HAD BEEN - some railway industry or government regulation as specified the wheels had to be turned and burnished as a pair whilst already mounted on their axle.

    Prolly had to do with the limited affordable ability to measure well and replicate any LARGE OD to a near-as-dammit exact match, that era or just before it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by WillWilly View Post
    So for the Dauber, I contacted a gentleman that manufactures Daubers for other lathes. He had a drawing of a 10EE dauber that appears to work with my CY, 1/2" diameter well on the tailstock.

    He is going to draw up and see if he can manufacture.

    monarch-dauber.jpg

    manoarch-dauber-2.jpg
    Just to give credit where it's due, the drawing was done by DaveE907 and posted first in this thread: 10EE Dauber Sketch

    IIRC, the dauber is a two-piece affair. The blade is steel, pressed into a cast handle.

    Cal

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cal Haines View Post
    IIRC, the dauber is a two-piece affair. The blade is steel, pressed into a cast handle.

    Cal
    The one in the image is not - it's Zamak or something similar in density. I know because it's sitting in my 10EE tailstock.

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    Follow up for future visitors:

    For #4, I chipped out the existing material, unclogged my oil lines, then refilled the channels with plaster of paris. To do so I tilted the saddle up vertically on the workbench and filled the channels one at a time. As WillyWilly mentioned, the oil lines had to be held down in the channel while the plaster was placed and cured.

    saddle-fix-1.jpg

    saddle-fix-2.jpg

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    Quote Originally Posted by *D'B=6bk View Post
    Follow up for future visitors:

    For #4, I chipped out the existing material, unclogged my oil lines, then refilled the channels with plaster of paris. To do so I tilted the saddle up vertically on the workbench and filled the channels one at a time. As WillyWilly mentioned, the oil lines had to be held down in the channel while the plaster was placed and cured.
    I'm pretty sure that I used vinyl caulk for that filler when rebuilding my 10EE.

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