Thread: Monarch Serial Numbers

10 x 20 EE, 2500 RPM model
S/N 33309
Motor-generator drive
Build date 11-1950
Delivered to Moore Machinery Company of San Francisco
Delivered with: Steady rest, Travel rest, Taper attachment, Carriage micro stop.

Now living in Los Angeles.

Originally Posted by CowDriver

10 x 20 EE, 2500 RPM model
S/N 33309
Motor-generator drive
Build date 11-1950
Delivered to Moore Machinery Company of San Francisco
Delivered with: Steady rest, Travel rest, Taper attachment, Carriage micro stop.

Now living in Los Angeles.

Moore Machinery was a Monarch dealer. Lots of 10EEs on the west coast have Moore tags on them. I am really surprised that Monarch did not have the information on the actual purchaser of the machine.

Originally Posted by rimcanyon

Moore Machinery was a Monarch dealer. Lots of 10EEs on the west coast have Moore tags on them. I am really surprised that Monarch did not have the information on the actual purchaser of the machine.

Korean War was hot at the time, 'Cold War' running in parallel no?

Moore probably pre-ordered all the 10EE they could get 'on spec', as a safe bet to move quickly.

Bill

Originally Posted by Monarchist

Korean War was hot at the time, 'Cold War' running in parallel no?

Moore probably pre-ordered all the 10EE they could get 'on spec', as a safe bet to move quickly.

Bill

Makes sense, but every time I call Monarch regarding a machine, they have more information than just the dealer's name available, i.e. when parts were last ordered for it, by whom, etc. I would have expected them to track the lathe by the first real owner, even in that case.

Originally Posted by rimcanyon

Makes sense, but every time I call Monarch regarding a machine, they have more information than just the dealer's name available, i.e. when parts were last ordered for it, by whom, etc. I would have expected them to track the lathe by the first real owner, even in that case.

'Nuther thought. Capital equipment "Leasing" was still relatively new.

Wonder if Moore was into that?

Bill

Originally Posted by Monarchist

'Nuther thought. Capital equipment "Leasing" was still relatively new.

Wonder if Moore was into that?

Bill

Good thought. Monarch was certainly involved in leasing as part of the lend lease program, which started in 1941. I've always wanted to know if there was a program in place when Ferranti bought my 1940 Sundstrand lathe from Monarch, or if the early part of WWII was financed directly by GB without US help.
Dave

Originally Posted by rimcanyon

Good thought. Monarch was certainly involved in leasing as part of the lend lease program, which started in 1941. I've always wanted to know if there was a program in place when Ferranti bought my 1940 Sundstrand lathe from Monarch, or if the early part of WWII was financed directly by GB without US help.
Dave

US/UK 'Lend Lease' was a political critter with near-zero relationship to business leasing, but governments were often involved in what may have been Moore's role.

Suppose a firm won a contract - gov or Big Corp - for machine work that required experienced staff and machine-tools that had five and more year depreciation lives, but .. the contract was KNOWN to have to go back out for bid every six months, year, three years...

What used to be cold-war 'Beltway Bandit' (DC and Boston) common was that the same Managers, Scientists, Engineers. Technical Staff etc. that worked on such a project for Company A had their resumes on file with all the other 'usual suspects' among routine bidders. Indeed, the others could not qualify as a bidder without experienced staff and required equipment.

WHEN the incumbent lost the bid, it was often the same folks on the same equipment that left one payroll Friday, showed up on the new payroll Monday, did much the same work with a new sign over the entrance.

Both Gummint and Big Corp were happy with that. There had been an (apparent) award to lowest qualified bidder each go, and they had the right stuff to not impair the delivery.

Next go, it might reverse.

Made sense to short-term lease a building, office furniture, test gear, production machinery rather than own it, because a loser might NOT get back in for many years, or not at all.

Whole industries grew up to support electronics test gear leasing alone. Then Technical Staff.

Moore MAY have been a player in leasing - and maintaining - machine-tools in a similar manner.

There would have been little point in involving Monarch Machine Tool in tracking who was on base at any given point in the cycle.

Bill

I had the privilege to work on 7 Monarch tool room lathes this week. The place I was working put tape over the camera on my phone so no photos. One was 76 years old and they still use it all the time. It was a cat size 27" Model N with a 36.5' swing and 252" between centers. The MFGR's number was 8496 and the build date was 11/1940. Another one was a 22" Model CM with a 24.5" swing and 144" travel between centers. The MFGR's number was 16040 and build date was 10/1942.

There were four 2013 tool room lathes with 20" swing and model 614, SN's 54013, 53924, 53851, and 53922. The last one was a 20" CM with a 24.5 swing and 120" between centers, MFGR's number 33595 and build date 3/1951.

I was just leveling and getting the twist out of the beds. It's pretty cool to work on these machines that are older than myself. I could have used Rich's King Way alignment tool.

What year were the 614's?

SN's for Model 614's: 54013 built 12/1991, 53924 built 10/1991 , 53851 built 11/1989, and 53922 built 10/1991. These were all in fantastic condition with hardly any wear on the ways.

Those were all government lathes either navy or army arsenal. Great machines with scales and all

Mine is 45310
Date of MFG. 12-61
Original receipt says it was sold to Varian Assoc in Palo Alto CA on 1-15-1962

Originally Posted by John S01

Mine is 45310
Date of MFG. 12-61
Original receipt says it was sold to Varian Assoc in Palo Alto CA on 1-15-1962

Varian - and what it split-off into - is one of America's most interesting companies, historically. Start with the Wikipedia article, branch out and further track the technology they were into and the personalities involved. You'll have to guess at what your 10EE might have done. Much of their work was classified.

6642 10EE sold to Bausch and Lomb, then spent time in a machine shop in S.C.
36366 Model 60 sold to NASA/Redstone Arsenal
38044 10EE sold to NASA/Redstone Arsenal

No. 11228 16" CW sold to General Electric
Build date 9-1941

Monarch CY 16" x 30" CN 24271 Build Date 10- 1943

I'll post since mine does not fit into the table correctly.
EE-49961 Build date 3-69 sold to American Bosch loaded with goodies that are sadly busted and abused.
Currently resides in Spokane WA.

New member here. Long & shot is I'm a small fab shop that does some of my own machining. I have and am slowly getting to work better and better a Monarch 22 MBB. Actual swing is 22.5" 72" on centers. Build date is 8-37, don't see the serial numbers anywhere.

I know I saw a thread for downloading parts & handbooks on Monarchs, but can't seem to locate it now.

I'm working on getting the apron to hold oil again and hopefully the pump is going to work,(and snowballs chance in hell the oil ducts flow).

Is there any info anyone can share on this with me?

I'm working this thing a fair amount now, but can rest it a bit and use my old Sebastian 13" swing lathe.

Thanks tOM

All the serial number books that list tables for Monarch Lathes, hat I've seen, are not correct, so should be used only as a rough guide.

Originally Posted by jlegge

All the serial number books that list tables for Monarch Lathes, hat I've seen, are not correct, so should be used only as a rough guide.

And what fount of knowledge enables you to assess their accuracy?

- Leigh