Monarch Series 61, Rebuilding for Improvement - Page 2
Close
Login to Your Account
Page 2 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast
Results 21 to 40 of 63
  1. #21
    Join Date
    Feb 2016
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Texas
    Posts
    2,242
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    1576
    Likes (Received)
    975

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by nt1953 View Post
    You may find that the unused flats beside the v-ways are better surfaces to check things with than the tailstock flat and v-way.
    I decided not to attempt to grind the bed but to remove the ridges on the bed and rework everything else. Here are a couple of pictures of my slide:


    Attachment 329331 Attachment 329332


    All I did was remove the ridge and measure wear. I knew the measurements were not too accurate, but they gave me a good idea as to how much wear there was and where the wear was the worst.
    You have a lot of good info in your two posts, I appreciate it. I thought I read the packing gland info, and was wondering where, as I'm messing with a fork in the headstock, and will most likely need to reseal the packing gland.

    I like your set up for a sled/trolley. I have been thinking of using the sides, outside of ways as you did for more stability. But I'm not there yet, and need to do some testing as I get set up.

    Your intention was a little different in that you were looking to remove a ridge. And you are set up with a small grinding wheel.

    In post #2, two of the guys I referenced, 4GSR and dsergison also used smaller grinding wheels. I plan on writing about this more in detail later. But my first thought is it takes a lot of patience to use small wheels. Surface, O.D., or I.D. grinders, none really hog of material. But the way you use a surface grinder or O.D. grinder with larger wheels can get a bit more depth of cut than the smaller ID size wheels. And I think the finish can come a bit cleaner.

    My intention right now is to use a 6" wheel. I may go bigger, but I'll try the 6" first. I want to be able to down feed and cross feed, in similar fashion as a surface grinder. I'll be bringing quite a bit of weight to my trolley, in part for stability/rigidity, but also to hold and use the grinder.

  2. #22
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Alabama
    Posts
    634
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    1
    Likes (Received)
    130

  3. #23
    Join Date
    Feb 2016
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Texas
    Posts
    2,242
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    1576
    Likes (Received)
    975

    Default

    I got the leadscrew end bracket cleaned up, and the bearings for feed rod and clutch rod shoved out:

    26.jpg

    Painted, and I'll be drill oil passages and adding gits oilers to 3 of the 4 bearing holes. Exception is the leadscrew reverse. That slides in and out, besides rotating, so easy enough to lube.

    27.jpg

    QCGB off:

    28.jpg

    End cover removed. Replacing seal will be easier with shaft out of the way too. After seeing bushing and shaft for feed rod, I'll be adding a gits oiler for that too.

    29.jpg

    The problem bushing, is wore, but so is the shaft. I'll be cutting that down, and/or replacing with Mike Thomas's magical parts supply warehouse . About .020" wear on the shaft, also taper pin hole is egged out a bit. I'll be going up a size and reaming that out, if I reuse.

    30.jpg

  4. #24
    Join Date
    Feb 2016
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Texas
    Posts
    2,242
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    1576
    Likes (Received)
    975

    Default

    I discovered a problem with the bevel gears in qcgb, for the clutch lever mechanism. But I have a fairly easy solution.

    First, I had an "oh [email protected]%" moment when I removed qcgb end plate. I looked down and saw bevel gears. And I didn't time them, or mark shafts prior to pulling end cover. . .

    You can see the one bevel gear on end plate:

    38.jpg

    The other bevel gear in qcgb:

    39.jpg

    Why does it matter ? The bevel gear on end plate is pinned to clutch arm, and I need it to operate at a fairly specific location.

    The bevel gear in qcgb is keyed internal for a shaft, that shaft also keyed to work linkage to head stock, and needs to operate in a certain range. . .

    Well a funny thing, this turned out to be the least of my problems.

    I had 3 teeth on one gear, and 4 on the other with terrible wear:

    34.jpg 44.jpg

    Good news though. Simple solution and I don't even really need to replace them. These gears never spin 360 degrees. They only operate on 30 to 45 degree, back and forth rotation. That's why only 3 or 4 teeth are wore, its always on those same teeth.

    The answer is to relocate them 180 degrees from their original mating. All the other teeth are brand new and have never been used:

    45.jpg

    I'll explain why 180 degrees further, and what I have to do to get timing right. . .

  5. #25
    Join Date
    Feb 2016
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Texas
    Posts
    2,242
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    1576
    Likes (Received)
    975

    Default

    Continued from last post. . .

    If we look at the lathe it has two clutch arms. One at qcgb, one at apron. You want both at a comfortable operating range, but you'll also bang into to something if you have the timing off:

    42.jpg

    The clutch operating lever at qcgb is directly drilled through and pinned to the one bevel gear. So the one reason to rotate 180 degrees, it allows me to use that same drilled hole. Albeit, I will need to run a taper pin reamer to get holes to match, and most likely the next size up.

    So 180 degrees for unused teeth, plus I don't need to re-drill a hole. And good news, they hit the shaft dead center when drilled, spining 180 the holes line up nice:

    46.jpg

    Now the bevel gear inside qcgb, also will turn 180 degrees. Its keyed, and turns a shaft:

    40.jpg

    When assembled, that shaft passes through bed to rear side of lathe:

    41.jpg

    That shaft having key slots on both ends. On the rear side of lathe it connects to a lever and linkage which connects to headstock:

    43.jpg

    My intention is to cut a key slot 180 degrees from the original slot on rear side of lathe. That will allow original operation of clutch: Push to engage, lift up to disenage.

    I could allow lever to stay original to shaft, just flipped opposite side. But that would reverse operation of clutch: lift to engage, push down to disengage.
    Last edited by texasgunsmith; 09-22-2021 at 12:40 AM.

  6. Likes mllud22, rimcanyon liked this post
  7. #26
    Join Date
    Feb 2016
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Texas
    Posts
    2,242
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    1576
    Likes (Received)
    975

    Default

    I split the two housings from left end of qcgb:

    32.jpg

    That allowed me access to a chamber in the left end of qcgb. I was able to clean the mung out of the bottom and get clean oil shot into the bearings:

    47.jpg

    While I hate just exploring, and taking the time to remove parts sometimes, I'm usually glad after the fact. In this case I pulled an oil junction that was pressed into the bore, and oil fed from above. Getting it moved back I found what I guess is a 65 year old felt.

    48.jpg

    Cleaned that out and jammed new felt in:

    49.jpg

  8. #27
    Join Date
    Feb 2016
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Texas
    Posts
    2,242
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    1576
    Likes (Received)
    975

    Default

    Checking some of the bearings. Timkins, and in good shape:

    51.jpg

    Got mung and grit cleared out in the space between opposing bearings:

    50.jpg

    Finally on to the main reason I pulled qcgb, the stub shaft for feed rod:

    30.jpg

    Got it set up and cut down true. Also cut down the end step where feed rod coupling connects, the coupling was a little loose as well. I'll bore the coupling and add a sleeve to tighten it up:

    52.jpg

  9. Likes 4GSR liked this post
  10. #28
    Join Date
    Feb 2016
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Texas
    Posts
    2,242
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    1576
    Likes (Received)
    975

    Default

    I had finished cutting the stub shaft which connects to feed rod, by way of a coupling. I had also cut the lower step which mates to coupling as the connection had wobbled around a bit.

    53.jpg

    So on the coupling itself, I want to face it off, plus bore it to add an internal sleeve, to fit that stub shaft. Here I'm setting up to bore:

    54.jpg

    Once bore was done and I had measurement, I used some brass stock to to make the internal sleeve. Here I'm using a power fed tail stock. A real pleasure to use for such things. I hate to give it up, but I'm not sure I can keep 3 lathes . We'll see, I have to think about it. Anyway that tail stock is a beast operating at a low low reduction I can push through pretty much anything:

    55.jpg

    I got the sleeve parted off and pressed into coupling. Got it bored to fit stub shaft. I left a small step on the face, its just under the diameter of the bearing portion of stub shaft:

    56.jpg

    The taper pin hole was at #5, but kind of egged. Reaming it I was getting to end of a #5 reamer, so had to go up to a #6. But I kept diameter as small as possible, and ordered longer #6 taper pins to use the skinny end.:

    57.jpg

  11. Likes mllud22, rabler, 4GSR liked this post
  12. #29
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    suburbs of Ann Arbor, MI, USA
    Posts
    13,262
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    466
    Likes (Received)
    1130

    Default

    I don't want to come off as criticizing your work as its going really well and I'm enjoying it for sure, but just wanted to say that I think you will be a lot happier with bronze sleeves rather than brass, over the long haul.

  13. #30
    Join Date
    Feb 2016
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Texas
    Posts
    2,242
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    1576
    Likes (Received)
    975

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by matt_isserstedt View Post
    I don't want to come off as criticizing your work as its going really well and I'm enjoying it for sure, but just wanted to say that I think you will be a lot happier with bronze sleeves rather than brass, over the long haul.
    On all my bearings, or bearing sleeves I use c932 bronze.

    This particular bore the shaft dont spin inside coupling. It has a taper pin hammered through shaft, brass sleeve and collar.

    I don't particularly make a habit of using that material though, it was just a piece of stock that happened to be close in size.

    The main reason for this repair was basically both end bearings for feed rod were whipped. With repairs and bearings replaced,this coupling should run true without wobbling around.

    The only other bad news is that I need to repair feed rod connection through apron as well. But I know that already, and have been prepping some for that too.

  14. #31
    Join Date
    Feb 2016
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Texas
    Posts
    2,242
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    1576
    Likes (Received)
    975

    Default

    A mystery !! Part 1.

    Sometimes it feels like being an archeologist working on old machines. Going back in time to see what others did, be it the manufacture or someone else.

    In this case, working on the qcgb. I showed the stub shaft repair for feed rod. Moving on to the qcgb end plate to replace bearings for that stub shaft, plus bearings for the clutch bevel gears. I got the bearings pressed out:

    58.jpg

    Wiping the bores clean, I found what felt and looked like an oil feed hole for the feed rod bushings, at the top of bore:

    59.jpg

    Now the interesting part. . . directly above that hole is a bore for another bushing. And no hole is drilled through the bushing ! More interesting yet, note the paint on bushing ! My guess is factory paint. But I suppose not impossible someone replaced bearing and painted the interior.

    I bet the whole reason I needed to make this repair is the oil holes were not drilled in the bushings.

    60.jpg

    As we continue up the line to directly above that bushing, we have the bore for main lead screw. It does have an adjoining oil hole to that lower bearing, which is not drilled:

    61.jpg

    One thing bothering me. . .and part of the mystery. How does oil get to the upper bearing for main lead screw ?

    I discovered something about the enclosed qcgb. It has a site glass for oil level. Guess what ? When full the oil level is below any gear in main gear cluster at center chamber of qcgb. One gear in far left chamber will touch into the oil level. This means the gears in main chamber are not going to catch and throw the oil all over the inside of gear box. And the end plate I'm working on is the far right side.

    The qcgb site glass, and oil level are mostly for its own oil pump. And the oil pump feeds the Timken bearings for the main shafts inside the qcgb.

    So. . .how is oil supposed to get to the far right end plate for these bushings, and all the way up to the main lead screw bearing ?

    To be continued. . .

  15. #32
    Join Date
    Feb 2016
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Texas
    Posts
    2,242
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    1576
    Likes (Received)
    975

    Default

    The mystery, part 2.

    Examining the right end cover more closely, I see a plug hammered into the top of end plate. During manufacture they must have used a long drill bit to punch down through the three bearing bores:

    63.jpg

    This still does not answer how oil gets up here.

    But continuing to examine end plate I find another plug for a cross drilled passage:

    64.jpg

    Now we're getting somewhere. That cross drilled passage hits the downward passage. And looking at the gasket surface of end plate, I have an open oil hole:

    65.jpg

    Going over to the qcgb itself, looking to where the oil hole goes on main housing:

    66.jpg

    To be continued. . .

  16. #33
    Join Date
    Feb 2016
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Texas
    Posts
    2,242
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    1576
    Likes (Received)
    975

    Default

    The mystery, part 3.

    Following the passage down main casting, I find another plug for a cross-drilled, and intersecting passage.

    And look at that, a copper oil line screwed into the housing:

    67.jpg

    Previously I thought that oil line only fed the Timken bearings on this side of qcgb, as that oil line is directly above this two branch tree:

    68.jpg

    Well mystery partially solved anyway. The end plate does get oil fed to it, and we see how. Its just unknown to me if the bearings were replaced and no oil holes drilled in them, or an oversite during manufacture.

    58.jpg

  17. #34
    Join Date
    Feb 2016
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Texas
    Posts
    2,242
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    1576
    Likes (Received)
    975

    Default

    Getting set up to make the bearings for feed rod stub shaft in qcgb. 1.75" c932 bronze hollow round:

    69.jpg

    Bearings made for feed rod stub shaft, and clutch bevel gear shaft, all pressed in. New seal for the clutch bevel gear shaft.

    Bearings for the feed rod stub shaft, I cut 4 length wise minor oil channels. The outer bearing I have a wider flange type end to help with end thrust from feed rod coupling.

    I also drilled and made sure passages for oil, from oil pump are now open. Further insurance, I drilled and added a gits oiler where I can pre-lube before start up.

    70.jpg

    The oil seal is the same for rear side of qcgb as well as at the clutch lever, a cr7513:

    71.jpg

    The shafts are in, and hammer pins knocked in clutch lever and feed rod coupling. I do have the clutch bevel gear 180 degrees out from original position as I discussed in an earlier post.

    Both shafts feel perfect now. They spin nice and no banging around. Oil clearance around .001-.0015". I have end thrust on feed rod stub shaft at about .0015"-.002".

    72.jpg

  18. Likes mllud22, rabler liked this post
  19. #35
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    People's Republic
    Posts
    6,506
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    764
    Likes (Received)
    3859

    Default

    You are a nut


    Just sayin...............

    No way I have the patience for this

  20. #36
    Join Date
    Sep 2016
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Missouri
    Posts
    1,197
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    992
    Likes (Received)
    399

    Default

    A guy that works on worn bushing and worn drivelines on boats sees what could be better in design. The shaft needed cleaned up and a new bushing made. Cutting a couple oil retention groves and drilling for a Git's oiler isn't that much added labor to the job too improve what's there. It's an improvement
    I Understand the reasoning behind making it better.

    Could just pop in a bushing and it may never wear out in a lifetime.
    I can see some seeing it as overdone but I do the same type of repairs while I'm there. Slop in that shaft wears on the half nuts.

    It's a privilege of the machine owner to be a little anal. .
    Bushings and shafts are most of my lathe use right now. Often neglected of regular oiling for years.
    This lathe has to outlive the current owner and still be good for that daughter to make parts that's getting the bug. She measures in tenths.

    I did product change setups on production machinery for years. You have too live with and make adjustments for Slop in worn parts daily. It adds work and hurts production in the long run. I always wanted to make it right but had to fight with the slop.
    A lot of rebuilds on the Monarch forum have improvements to the original design. Monarch built a great lathe but they wear
    As a long time machine mechanic owning a Machine tool is like dying and going to heaven. You appreciate owning it and what you can do with it . You buy worn machinery and rebuild for improvement.

    Documenting these repairs helps the people that google with problems. Like the shifting fork repair

  21. Likes texasgunsmith, ChristopherJ liked this post
  22. #37
    Join Date
    Feb 2016
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Texas
    Posts
    2,242
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    1576
    Likes (Received)
    975

    Default

    Believe me, sometimes I really wonder what I'm doing . I often just want to be done. Having gone through the time and pain involved, once finished, I feel its really worth it.

    I've got some machines I've gone through, and it took a stupid amount of time. Once past all that though, I can just go hit the power button and they do what I want, and look half way decent too.

    Still have a long way to go on this one, but I feel like I can see the end, or completion. So I'm alright with it. I've had a pretty productive year, year and a half. Hopefully finish this in the next few months.

  23. Likes TBJK liked this post
  24. #38
    Join Date
    Sep 2016
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Missouri
    Posts
    1,197
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    992
    Likes (Received)
    399

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by texasgunsmith View Post
    Believe me, sometimes I really wonder what I'm doing . I often just want to be done. Having gone through the time and pain involved, once finished, I feel its really worth it.

    I've got some machines I've gone through, and it took a stupid amount of time. Once past all that though, I can just go hit the power button and they do what I want, and look half way decent too.

    Still have a long way to go on this one, but I feel like I can see the end, or completion. So I'm alright with it. I've had a pretty productive year, year and a half. Hopefully finish this in the next few months.

    Ill buy a machine and tell myself that I'm not going to get in too deep. That doesn't always work as you see problems that need repair. Do it right or do it twice.

    I had an exposed bushing like that in a really dirty place. Too keep grit out I put a oil seal with the face against outside of the casting {cup out} I silicone sealed it and pined it on with tag screws. Sort of an exterior shield.
    You should be able too keep any grit flushed out now with oil now with the Gits oiler.

    Monarch really thought out all those oil passages. There is one that oils the half nuts on the 10ee that gets clogged easy. You will be working on that 10ee next. It never really ends.

  25. Likes texasgunsmith liked this post
  26. #39
    Join Date
    Feb 2016
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Texas
    Posts
    2,242
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    1576
    Likes (Received)
    975

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by mllud22 View Post

    I had an exposed bushing like that in a really dirty place. Too keep grit out I put a oil seal with the face against outside of the casting {cup out} I silicone sealed it and pined it on with tag screws. Sort of an exterior shield.
    You should be able too keep any grit flushed out now with oil now with the Gits oiler.

    \
    I really like the seal idea to keep dirt/debris out. On the feed rod stub shaft though, I wanted to control end thrust, because the feed rod coupling had previously contacted the end plate and wore into it.

    I forgot to mention it, but what I did on thrust face was grind two oil reliefs, at 3 and 9 oclock. So dirt falling down won't fall directly into it.

    Also I ground oil reliefs wider toward ID of bushing, and taper to almost nothing as it gets to outer edge. In that way I'm hoping not to collect debris. I re-posted the pic and circled in red as its not highly visible:

    73.jpg

  27. Likes mllud22 liked this post
  28. #40
    Join Date
    Sep 2016
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Missouri
    Posts
    1,197
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    992
    Likes (Received)
    399

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by texasgunsmith View Post
    I really like the seal idea to keep dirt/debris out. On the feed rod stub shaft though, I wanted to control end thrust, because the feed rod coupling had previously contacted the end plate and wore into it.

    I forgot to mention it, but what I did on thrust face was grind two oil reliefs, at 3 and 9 oclock. So dirt falling down won't fall directly into it.

    Also I ground oil reliefs wider toward ID of bushing, and taper to almost nothing as it gets to outer edge. In that way I'm hoping not to collect debris. I re-posted the pic and circled in red as its not highly visible:

    73.jpg
    It sounds like you have already thought about keeping the crud away.
    Are you controlling the end thrust with bronze washers on both sides and setting the feed rod coupler to set it ?
    I didn't think there was room for a seal anyway.

    I forgot to mention that you can shave the flange off the seal so all you have is a flat round with the rubber cup. That looks better if its visible and the cup doesn't collect crud. Less protection for the rubber cup and spring though.
    Bringing a machine back up to snuff is time consuming. A friend said I don't have your patients. I really don't have that much patients. Right now I'm getting going overboard painting the 10ee. I just cant keep myself from going overboard. Which defects do you not fix.
    Shiny Paint does nothing accept satisfies the owner. I want it done!
    Painting weather is slipping away.


    Is the QCGB ready for reassembly. ?


Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •