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Mystery Monarch

mf205i

Cast Iron
Joined
Mar 18, 2006
Location
Calif.
Gentlemen, Hi I am new to the group, my name is Mike. I have had at least one Atlas lathe for decades, but my projects have outgrown them. My new pride and joy is a 14.5”x32” Monarch!
WOW what a quantum leap in smooth quality!
The problem is that I have no idea what I bought. Although I recognized the name, this was the first Monarch I had seen. It is obviously a basic, but high quality, machine and it was to good to pass up. It came well tooled, taper attachment, steady rest, tight, like they were new, 10.5”three and 11.5” four jaw Accurex chucks, 13” back plate, bearing and dead centers, C-5 collet chuck with hand wheel closer, boring bars etc. The gentleman even loaded it for me! I JUST HAD TO HAVE IT! It shows a moderate amount of ware and everything seems to work. Finding a second gear on the back gear was like finding a secret room in an old house! I had never seen this feature before. The lathe has nine speeds, with the two speed back gear. It has a plain bearing headstock. I was told it was made during WW1?
Bed is marked at tailstock end:
INSPECTED BY K
LOT NO
A 75-7
MA 0H7 0 * NOTE the 0H7 are barely visible and are probably wrong*

11

To the left of these marks is an upside down 30.
30 is also marked on the carriage under the cross slide
The lathe can be seen at the following links:
http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h63/mikeslathe/bfb0f135.jpg
http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h63/mikeslathe/0bc4ef4b.jpg

If you have any information or comments about my new toy, MODEL? YEAR? PARTS? LITERATURE, LINKS, ANYTHING AT ALL, I would truly appreciate hearing from you!
Thank You, Mike
 
Nice old lathe!
My brother has one that I remember looking about the same as yours. His has a patent date of 1908 which makes it about the first series of lathes built by Monarch. Your description fits his lathe also. I remember his being about 14" x 60", sleeve bearing headstock, quick change gearbox and 2 speed backgear. He has the countershaft for the flat belt drive and it has an idler pulley on it. You can shift the belt onto this idler pulley and put the lathe into neutral. The flat belt shifter works great. It is amazing how well the flat belt works and how easy it is to shift speeds. You change speeds on the fly just by pushing on the belt shifter.
I will be visiting him next week but do not know if I will get a chance to see the lathe as it is in the garage of his daughter's house.
 
Hi Toolnut, I found a patent date of 1906 on the QC gearbox. The thing that strikes me about the lathe is it is so massive and yet so smooth to operate. The carriage is two feet wide and yet when it was in my driveway, which has a slope of four degrees, the carriage would glide down the ways, unassisted, under its own weight!
Thanks, Mike
 
Congrads on a great looking lathe!

Monarch started in 1909 making lathes.

The patent from Flather for the QC gearbox which Monarch started using in 1912. The design of the QC makes at least 1913.

It is a Model A from the swing and the A in the lot number.

Monarch made several thousand of these lathes in WWI.

What troubles me is the headstock does not look right. It is much heavier than other A's I've seen and also from catalog pictures I have. The bed also looks to have a deeper section to it, but this could be just an optical illusion.

Monarch made cone headstocks into the late thirties, but they patent the cone clutch controled apron in 1924 and started using serial numbers in 1927, which this lathe has neither.

This lathe could have a special heavy duty headstock and could have been built in 1913, but my gut tells me in was built in the lathe teens or early 1920's. It just looks heavier built than a regular model A. With the large number of machines built between 1915 and 1918 with peak production in 1917-1918, odds would be good that your lathe came from this period.

Monarch Lathes has records for all their lathes including those made in lots. They should be able to confirm the age of your machine.

John
 
I need to thumb through what I have from that period, to see if I can find a better match for your lathe.

I'll let you know what I find.
 
Thanks Jlegge, I found a picture of a model A on the Internet. The lathes are very similar, but as you noted, the headstock on my lathe is different, heavier. I also noted that the apron and the controls are different, as is the threading dial. Most of the changes seem to be improvements, heavier construction, covers, oil cups, control changes etc. The mystery continues.
Thank you, Mike
 
Okay, I just look through the refernce material I have and it matches up exactly to a model A having a 3 step double back gear headstock. Earlier Model A had a 5 step single back gear headstock.

The 3 step headstock appeared around 1916 and looks to be the standard produced during WWI, and afterwards.

Price for a 6ft bed 14" Model A was $250.00 in 1918. Monarch built 1700 of these lathes in 1917, and over 3,000 lathes of all sizes in 1918.

Base Specs for a 14" Model A are as follows:

Swing over bed: 14.25"
Swing over carriage: 9.75
Take between centers: 2'7.5"
Base length: 6'
Base shippiong weight: 1750#
extra weight for every 2 feet: 150#
Hole through spindle: 1 15/16
Front bearing: 2.5x5
Rear spindle bearing: 2.125 x 4 7/16
Ceneter Morse taper: #3MT
Spindle nose diameter and threads per inch: 2.25-8
Back gear ratio double: 3:1 and 8:1
Lead screw diameter: 1.25-4 thd
Range of threads: 3-46
Range of feeds per inch, quick change: 7.5-115
Headstock base length: 22.75
Tailstock base length: 10.5
Tailstock spindle dia: 1.75
Carriage length: 24
Carriage bridge width: 6
Compound rest top slide travel: 4.125
Countershaft pulley size: 10x3
Counter shaft speed: 200rpm
Size of tool: 5/8 x 1.375
Motor size recommended ordinary service: 2HP
Distance spindle to floor: 41.75
Head and countershaft cone step face, double back gears: 6, 7.125, and 9
Width of bed: 12
Depth of bed: 11
 
It was pretty clear that it was double back geared from the inked in set of rpm numbers on the head stock, wasn't it?

And John Oder has always mentioned that 3 step flat pulleys on lathes of this vintage usually indicate double back gearing.


Northernsinger
 
:D

Forum member "doc" in Kentucky has one similar - he thought it was good enough to move it all the way from MA.

Maybe he can copy the big assembly drawing I sent him for you. May be earlier than this one, but is still interesting. You can see that even in the teens, Monarch was a class act company.

John
 
WOW!!! Jlegge, I am absolutely floored! First and foremost, Thank You so very much for all of the time and effort that you put into answering my question. Your specifications seem to be a perfect match for my lathe. Could I inquire as to wear you got all of that information? I have looked quite extensively through the internet and found only the set of pictures at http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.plansandprojects.com/My%2520Machines/Monarch%2520Lathe/MON_0007.JPG&imgrefurl=http://www.plansandprojects.com/My%2520Machines/Mona rch%2520Lathe/&h=760&w=992&sz=147&tbnid=jvxVBw2qzeEYsM:&tbnh=114&tbnw=149&hl=en
This was the lathe that I was comparing mine to when I noted how similar they were, but that the apron, thread dial and headstock are different. I sure am enjoying learning about my new toy, so once again Thank You, Mike
P.S.
I need to contact Monarch, to see about parts availability and if they would nail down the manufacturing date. Is there someone specific to e-mail or call?
 
Hello to all,
It is nice to read about the other Monarch machines out there.
I have owned one for about 20 years or so. When I first got it I called Monarch and I was told that they had no records of the very fist machines, they were lost or distroyed.
I have found out somethings on my own such as; the original company was in Detroit but fell into hard times and was bought by I.H.Thedieck as an attenpt to get the town of Sidney back up on its feet after the lose of a major source of income for the town. So the Monarch Machine Tool Company was moved to Sidney Ohio in 1909. The first year the production was around 186 machines that was 1910. and by 1917 2,350 were moved out the door.
The patent date of Jan 23, 1906 does not appear on the QC box but on the side of the head stock on my machine, so I would think that this is a general patent for the machine design.
From what I know the quick change gear box was first designed in the late 1700's but was not put under a patent until the late 1800's.
Getting back to the lathe I have since I have not been able to find out much about it, all I can do is read about others and go from there.
Mine is:
19" swing
24" center to center
8 1/4" tail stock travel with a 2" dia quill
most of the other specs are the same as the Model A
Stamped on the ways is: Inspected by Fred Cook
B
lot No.
188
Machine No.
6

On the inboard ways is stamped: 55
Now at some time this machine was converted to an electric motor. This motor is mounted on top by means of a factory cast motor bracket that looks like a large "C". It bolts onto the inboard side of the front of the bed just above the leg and arches to over the head stock. The motor is a, Lima 3 hp with a 4 speed gear box. It is a nice motor as it has the gear box as part on the motor and is two speeds in high and two in low that you change with a lever that moves left and right then you pull it out and move left and right again. The motor has a 4" dia pulley and on the face plate it has the ratios marked:
First 4.15
Second 3.15
Third 1.85
High 1.0
So I think this is a Model B machine. But I don't know. Does anyone have a better idea about this?
 
I am going to look at purchasing this same model. I go to look at it tomorrow to assess machine. I am hoping that you might have a manual. The lathe I'm looking to pick up is a Model A from the 1913 time frame. Let me know if you have one I might be able to get a copy of.
 
I am going to look at purchasing this same model. I go to look at it tomorrow to assess machine. I am hoping that you might have a manual. The lathe I'm looking to pick up is a Model A from the 1913 time frame. Let me know if you have one I might be able to get a copy of.


No "manuals" that early - not something being done then - probably because they were so simple and were only sold to people that knew all about caring for simple machinery. Note the emphasis is on caring for them - not running them. Knowledge of that aspect was a given since they were being sold to industry

This is as close as it gets, and its from late twenties.

Thanks to John Legge and Greg Menke

http://pounceatron.dreamhosters.com/docs/monarch/monarch-lathe-brochure.pdf
 
That is great information. I have what I think is an A model, about 16 by 66. Love running it and slowly bringing it back to good maintenance. These files will help!
 








 
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