need help evaluating this lathe please! mid 50s 10ee
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  1. #1
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    Default need help evaluating this lathe please! mid 50s 10ee

    Long time lurker, first time poster, etc... in a pinch and need some timely advice. i am a glass worker, specialize in difficult or complex commission work and have a little machine/welding/fab room for making special tools or equipment i need from time to time. the nice machinist upstairs sadly passed away and his equipment went up for auction. got some small stuff and didnt think i would bid on big stuff but i put in a bid or two on the monarch 10ee before i got priced out. couple days later the auctioneer called me, turns out the buyer flaked. he eventually offers it to me for $1000+the 16% fee. and he'll throw in the move to my shop in the back. Now, I already have a 10"x30" import lathe that works ok but I have a healthy respect for old american equipment as i spend most of my time working on a 1942 litton glass lathe(all original except motor). dont mind a bit of a project but space is a concern and it cant drag on forever or cost outrageous sums.
    soooooo....
    Do I pull the trigger? talk him down? here are the details as i have them. i can inspect again tomorrow but then its time to $#@! or get off the pot
    -s/n41900
    -Waid is in there but appears to be disconnected
    -appears to have a 3 phase dc drive
    -was unable to get the spindle going. i am trying to get in touch with the sons of the owner to see what they might know. i have been told it runs before but havent seen it actually turn. switch under dro appears to be powered, it hums when on, but cant get more than a tiny twitch out of the spindle
    -has a dro, cant tell if its functional. hopefully the sons will know
    -plenty of wear on the saddle, rounded corners
    -lots of backlash on the saddle and the tail stock but both move quite smoothly through almost entire range
    -ways have a few dings but not too bad
    -cross is good, compound moves like its got sand in it
    -comes with no tooling except a 6 jaw chuck
    -spindle turns smoothly with no noticeable noise
    Thanks very much for any input!
    img_20200508_111259.jpgimg_20200508_111319.jpgimg_20200508_113209.jpgimg_20200508_113226.jpg

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    I would go for it. You can't really get hurt at that price. The machine has some nice features, like ELSR, taper and an accumulating cross-feed dial. Worst comes to worst, you could part it out and more that recover your money.

    Please add any information from your second post to this one, so that I can delete the duplicate thread.

    Cal

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    I would buy it without question.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vetro View Post
    Long time lurker, first time poster, etc... in a pinch and need some timely advice. i am a glass worker, specialize in difficult or complex commission work and have a little machine/welding/fab room for making special tools or equipment i need from time to time.
    Yah go for it.

    Harold J Hacker, Hacker Glass, Buena Park & over 20 years in the public eye at Knott's Berry farm doing lamp-glass trinkets was my Uncle. I've spent "just" enough time in the shop where he made his own tools - including for his paperweights - and those for other glassworkers to tell ya "she'll do".

    Grab it while yah can. "Proximity" alone will save yah a bundle.

    Monarch community on PM can help yah sort it soon enough for what you will need it to do.

    Horold got by just fine with an ignorant Logan lathe, FWIW.

    OTOH he HAD been as much an early "Fronty Ford" hot-rodder, dirt-track racer, and custom Model-T conversion tractor builder as he was a glassworker! Good all around skills, IOW.

    You'll already have much the same, yah?

    No fear, here, then.


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    Put it this way, if yo don't buy it, give me the guys number

    yeah its a good deal, you may end up over your head n repairs, but you are in "Monarch Central' and the help here is the best for any machine anywhere


    buy it

    Where in Mass are you? I am a mere novice compared to many here, but I may be relatively local

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    Default Oops!

    Thanks Cal! And sorry about the double post. Thought I messed it up so tried again. ill check it out but feel free to delete, I don't think there is anything important
    Quote Originally Posted by Cal Haines View Post
    I would go for it. You can't really get hurt at that price. The machine has some nice features, like ELSR, taper and an accumulating cross-feed dial. Worst comes to worst, you could part it out and more that recover your money.

    Please add any information from your second post to this one, so that I can delete the duplicate thread.

    Cal

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    Thanks, I hope I'll do it justice!

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    Thanks! I'm in Waltham. We are Fiamma glass, can check us out at fiammaglass.com
    Quote Originally Posted by gustafson View Post
    Put it this way, if yo don't buy it, give me the guys number

    yeah its a good deal, you may end up over your head n repairs, but you are in "Monarch Central' and the help here is the best for any machine anywhere


    buy it

    Where in Mass are you? I am a mere novice compared to many here, but I may be relatively local

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    Thanks everyone for the input! Buying it! I am sure I will be bothering many of you with more with questions for some time😂

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vetro View Post
    Thanks everyone for the input! Buying it! I am sure I will be bothering many of you with more with questions for some time��
    Here's the beauty of a 10EE:

    "In the beginning..." so long as the spindle bearings are not utter trash..

    ...anything that can put power into a flat or even ONE row of a vee belt can make turns.

    Which FIRST means yah can leave whatever motor or drive it has - or has not - TF alone while yah bootstrap a few parts.

    Next up, the Monarch "community" "Right here, on PM" can walk yah through getting ANY of the OEM drives back in service.

    ANY. Juice pump, Dee Cee Drive, or even Vee Effing Dee or servo motor conversions.

    So apply the old surgeon's maxim:

    "First, do no harm"

    As-in don't play Johhny-Jump-up and figure yah have to gut a 10EE and roll-in a drive it doesn't already have. Not necessary.

    Restoral of ANY of the Dee Cee drives is nearly always faster, cheaper, and BETTER than a(ny) conversion not done wth a lot of MONEY as well as serious expertise, "borrowed, right here, on PM" if not also "learned".

    Shorter advice? Yah cannot really get "hurt" on this unless yah f**k up the MOVING of it!

    annnnnnnd .. PM has lots of advice on THAT part, too, as very, very, few 10EE were hatched from the egg right where they sit NOW.

    Nice looking glasswares, BTW. Website opener 'minds me of the StClair's work.
    Been a while... but then ..not all glass is equally fragile. Some CAN "endure", yah?

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    Looking at the pictures you posted it is not a VFD drive it is a DC drive and could have the original motor still in it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by labeeman View Post
    Looking at the pictures you posted it is not a VFD drive it is a DC drive and could have the original motor still in it.
    It MAY even have the OEM WiaD still in it. Tim's SCR drop-ins in case the scarce and costly "fire bottle" hollow-state Thyratrons are wonky?

    That can be a cheap fix.

    PS: No need to gut wires. NO NEED TO TAKE IT ALL APART, either!

    It ain't like an M16 alleged-rifle as needs field-stripped and cleaned every half hour lest the fool thing jam.

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    Be careful, the d c drive looks like it does Not have field weaking...so top speed will be around 1000rpm.....Price according...Phil

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    Quote Originally Posted by Phil in Montana View Post
    Be careful, the d c drive looks like it does Not have field weaking...so top speed will be around 1000rpm.....Price according...Phil
    Focus 3, 1Q, non-regen. That would be a "3R" if a 4Q version, and there'd not be any contactors. There are, so it ain't.

    I have the manual(s) on-disk here. Grab one from Galco, they still have a .pdf online.

    Good enough drive, 4Q would be better. Main issue is it is only 240 VAC in. so max around 190-95 VDC out against a nominal 180 VDC.

    Field power is most probably coming off the packaged "raw" FWB, corner of the enclosure.

    Presuming at least ONE of the OEM toilet-seat rheostats is still there, and in the Field circuit, it will be weakening field "early" just to get to the OEM "base" RPM, but CAN go above 1000 RPM, depending on how it was implemented.

    Net result is about a 2 - 2 1/4 HP lathe.

    OEM was a nominal 3 HP with about 4 HP "actual" on-tap, given the Monarch/Reliance Buckeye hot-rodders actually provided 245-255 VDC, not "just" the 230 VDC on the motor's data plate.

    Limited power and limited upper RPM isn't a huge deal. Progressively lousier regulation under load above about 1100 RPM - if-even THAT good - can be.

    Could be all the OP needs for what he does just as it sits.

    If/as/and WHEN.. no longer "good enough"?

    "We have our ways" to do an easy-enough upgrade back to full OEM power, RPM, and stability. And.... ability to run SLOWER than any of the OEM drives can do..

    One revolution every several minutes "slower".

    I still say:

    "First, do no harm!"


    Do a SAFE and careful move, gentle basic cleaning, make safe power available, flush & renew lubricants, learn its ways and areas in need of improvement.

    Do NOT "take it part for cleaning and painting".

    It is a LATHE. It hasn't forgotten how to BE a lathe.

    Don't f**k that part up by scattering it about or it may be years, if ever before it makes another chip!

    "Run what you got."

    PLAN and research any needed fixes and patches.

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  21. #15
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    Default Thank you for all the great advice!!

    Focus 3, 1Q, non-regen. That would be a "3R" if a 4Q version, and there'd not be any contactors. There are, so it ain't.
    i am 99% sure it is labeled as F3R2C. ill take some better pics as soon as i get in
    has a 3 phase plug on it that messed me up until i saw the dead end wire. must have just had it lying around

    Could be all the OP needs for what he does just as it sits.
    probably right...my needs are simple, not looking to find new problems to solve

    "First, do no harm!"
    my guiding star!

    Do a SAFE and careful move, gentle basic cleaning, make safe power available, flush & renew lubricants, learn its ways and areas in need of improvement.

    Do NOT "take it part for cleaning and painting".

    It is a LATHE. It hasn't forgotten how to BE a lathe.

    Don't f**k that part up by scattering it about or it may be years, if ever before it makes another chip!

    "Run what you got."

    PLAN and research any needed fixes and patches.
    yes sir!thank you for taking the time! i now have it, move is done. riggers maybe coulda been more gentle and it is making some sounds i dont like. ill post them up in a bit along with better pics and vids

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