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Need help removing sightglasses from 10EE

Marc_Stokeld

Cast Iron
Joined
Dec 25, 2006
Location
Sawyer, MN
The sightglasses on my Monarch are refusing to come out. I have tried pulling on long screws in the holes, pried on the screw heads with a bar, made a puller and tried to evenly and mechanically pull on all three holes at once, and added heat. The only thing that has happened is that I broke one of the glasses. Most of my glasses are so dirty I can't see in them, so they desperately need to be cleaned.

Does anyone have any tricks to get these things out?
 
I just took a couple out of a '61 that I am getting ready to sell to clean them and my procedure was as follows although not scientific it was successful.

Cut paint around perimeter of the metal part that fits into the casting and used a dental pick to make sure that I had it cleaned out as good as I could

Removed the three screws and then used a 1/8 drift punch and light hammer against one of the countersinks to rotate the the metal part which will break the seal of the cork gasket to the headstock

Once it rotates back and forth a bit I left the hole in the sight glass hanging over the threaded hole in the headstock a bit and used a small allen wrench as a hook to pull it out

Its a close fit so you'll have to jiggle and keep it coming out straight but the threads are in the casting not in the sight glass so you can't pull it out the way you described.

Hope I helped, Doug
 
Those cork gaskets hold like glue after half a century. my 1960 had plastic lenses. After trying all the things you did and a few more, I used a cape chisel on the outer edge to attempt like turning the bezel a couple taps with a 4oz, then two pin punches inserted into the screw holes and a large adjustable wrench and turned the buggers right out. You may try without the chisel I didn't. Only a small ding from the chisel.
 
On my elderly, "War Baby" machine, steel screws were used, and there had been only a couple of threads engagement into the casting.

When reinstalling the sight glass, first use a bottoming tap, and select somewhat longer oval head stainless steel machine screws.
 
Sight glass removal.

I removed the screws and bezel, then tapped around the edges of the sight glass using a slender block of hard wood (rosewood) and tapping with a small hammer. Kept walking around it until it winked. Still difficult to remove after it was loose. There is a cork gasket behind the lens and IIRC, another on the front side. With age (68 Module) it was stuck very tight. Broke the original cork gaskets and cut new paper gaskets (like working on old motorcycles) to go back together with. Weeps slightly, needed thicker gasket paper. The lens had a dark amber deposit on it. Mineral spirits would not touch it. Then washed it with soap and water scrubbing with my finger. Deposit came right off, figure that, petroleum deposit and soap and water cleans it. White witness line was bright and lens crystal clear. I planned to do the full complement, until I looked at the clock and discovered it had taken a whole evening to get that one done. If you have to get down on your hands and knees with a flashlight to check the lube levels, it isn't going to happen though. Now I can see that honey colored oil in that reservoir just standing in front of the machine, where before you couldn't tell if there was anything there or not.

Stan
 
FINALLY got them all out. Man, a couple of those were in there tight. And the last one was very determined to stay put. I wound up getting them all out by self-tapping some socket head machine screws in the bolt holes; maybe 4 threads worth. Put a large crescent wrench around the two screws and rotated the glass covers. Once the nuclear bond was broken they would come right out.

Now if I could only get the sup off of the apron!

Thanks again for all of your help
 
If you meant sump (instead of "sup") it may be as well bonded by its cork gasket as mine was. I removed the six SHCS holding and it and wouldn't budge without some real persuasion. A few good raps with a soft faced dead blow hammer fractured the gasket and all I had to deal with was the goo inside the sump.
 
I'm a little late to the party, but I'll add my solution...

After spending hours trying to get one of my sight glasses out, I made a spanner out of a 6" length of 1.5" hex aluminum bar. I turned down 3 pieces of drill rod to the ID of the holes in the sight glass and pressed them into three holes in the bar on the bolt circle of the sight glass cover screws. I also turned a boss in the end of the bar to center on the sight hole in the middle of the cover. The last 1/4" of the bar should be turned down, or the corners filed off to the OD of the cover to clear various features in the castings. The spanner works great; every one of the covers popped loose with no damage.

Cal
 
3-pin spanner notes.

Cal,

I made a 3-pin spanner as well--before I read this thread. Mine was made in a similar way with a round steel body and drill rod pins pressed in. I milled a hex on the end of my spanner so I could use a wrench to turn it. As you reported it, worked easily to break loose the sight glass from several coats of paint, rust and Permatex. This was done by inserting the spanner and rotating it. It took about 30 foot-pounds of torque I would guess. But once it popped loose, it was easy to use the spanner to rock it instead of to rotate the glass and it came out very nicely.

I removed all six sight glasses this way in short order. The advantage of the spanner is that you are not likely to break a glass or mar the ring. It seemed pleasingly "controlled" to remove it this way.

For those who might want to make a similar device, the pins (on my 1943 EE--I do not know if they might vary) are centered on circle with a 0.622" diameter radius. I used pins that were about 0.002" smaller in diameter than the ring holes and protruded from the body of the spanner about .25 inches. They had a generous round chamfer on the end to help them "find" the holes in the ring easily.

Denis
 
Hi Denis,

I really think the 3-pin spanner is the way to go. One of my sight glass covers had been glued down with something like permatex and would not let go. It's covered with hammer and other tool marks where someone tried in vain to get it loose. The spanner made short work of it.

My lenses are glass and they are pretty cloudy. I bought some special glass polish from Caswell to polish the lenses, but have not got back to that since.

I'm going to try macona's suggestion about using bruna-n O-rings in place of the cork gaskets. I bought some from McMaster-Carr. The trade number on the ones I bought is AS568-116S; McM item number 4061T162. If you use cork gaskets, the common wisdom seems to be to use Gas-ga-cinch to seal the cork down.

Cal
 
More Spanner Notes

Cal,

I bought some 1 inch OD o-rings at my local hardware store. I will try that approach. Seems like it should be simpler all around to go with rings rather than gluing in cork.

If you wanted to just cut some new lenses, it would not be very hard to do. Just use some abrasive and a pipe (Copper? Aluminum? Steel?) with the right ID chucked in a drill press. With hot glue or modeling clay build a little dam around the spot where you intend to cut the glass, sprinkle in some abrasive and "just add water." Turn the pipe a few hundred RPM's and use light pressure raising the pipe a little every 30 secs or so to let fresh abrasive slurry slide under it. It will cut through in just a minute or two. Almost any abrasive will work. I would use something like 100 grit carborundum or similar. Coarser would work fine and finer would work, just a little slower.

I think I would try to use single weight glass as opposed to the usual double weight window glass.

Denis
 
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Hi Denis,

Good suggestions on cutting new lenses. Do you cut slots in the "pipe" to let the slurry circulate?

I think they went to plastic lenses at some point, but glass will stand up better. The glass in my machine is 0.08" thick. If thicker glass were used the O-ring or gasket would need to be thinner.

Cal
 
Glass Disc Cutting

Cal,

Single strength glass is "3/32 inch" thick according to my local glass shop. That is in the ballpark that you measured at .08 inch.

I think slots would likely improve efficiency of the cutter. I have not tried it, but I like the idea. It would be easy to do either with a hacksaw or on the milling machine. I just have taken the "blunt tool" approach described earlier and it seemed to work just fine.

Once the piece is cut, use silicon cabide paper (100 grit) or, better, a diamond stone to take the hard edge off the glass disk. I would then glue the glass disk to the zinc ring with silicon and use the o-ring between the ring-glass assembly and the casting. Mind you I have not actually actually replaced the sight glass in this way but have cut glass disks seveal times as above.

A similar method can be used to put a hole in glass--usually the hole is small so I use a solid rod as a cutter coupled with abrasive.

Denis
 
I bought some 1 inch OD o-rings at my local hardware store.

Some of the lowest common denominator O-rings don't stand up very well to a variety of lubricants and solvents. Given the mess and replacement hassle issues associated with leaking or decaying seals, make sure that you are using quality O-rings.
 
Glass cutting

The method Denis describes is standard practice among optical workers for cutting holes in telescope mirrors, making lens blanks, etc. "Procedures in Experimental Physics" recommends iron or brass tubing, but copper will work also. The main criterion is that it not be hardened because grit embedment is desirable here. The idea is to have the grit stick on the cutter and grind the glass. Notches are normal practice. The book recommends 60 or 90 grit carborundum for thick glass and 120 for fine or fragile pieces, so 100 grit is just about right for this service. It also recommends water but says that you will cut faster with a mixture of one half liter of turpentine and 5 grams of camphor. My own experience is that the cutting edge will wear into a radius, leaving a sharp rim like a burr when it breaks through. The thinner the wall of the tube, the smaller the radius, making a cleaner part. In this case, I would stack several pieces together with the thinnest type of Super Glue, after dropping the glue on clamping them together quickly and firmly to minimize the thickness of the glue layer, and cut through the whole stack. Leaving the stack in acetone overnight should dissolve the Super Glue ( I think, I haven't tried it ). I have attached pictures of a "biscuit cutter" for 2 1/2" holes made from B1113. The spiral lines are just surface rust from the water.

Bill
 

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Some of the lowest common denominator O-rings don't stand up very well to a variety of lubricants and solvents. Given the mess and replacement hassle issues associated with leaking or decaying seals, make sure that you are using quality O-rings.

Thanks for the good input, Peter. I know you are right using good quality rings. As it turns out, I happen to live in a town with an exceptional hardware store that has an amazing inventory of real quality merchandise and knowledgeable sales people some of whom have been at the store for 30+ yrs. This is a far cry from the all-to-common situation at most of what tries to pass as a hardware store these days.

Bill, your "biscuit cutter" is really nicely made. Even the rust is symmetric! I am afraid I have been content to get by with a much cruder tool that works pretty well but probably not as well as yours. I really like the suggestion of stacking glass pieces to cut them.

Denis
 
Help

Denis, this is a true story- I swear that I am not making it up.

I had a helper who had just started and was not yet acquainted with the neighbors painting the front of the shop while I was on an errand. As he painted, he heard a cry "Help meeeee".
He looked around, couldn't see anything and resumed painting. He heard the cry again and this time was able to locate it coming from down the block. He walked to the front of the next shop and heard it yet again, apparently from inside. He went in and found the two brothers who have a stained glass window business there. He asked if they were alright and one of them replied "I was just telling Tim about trying to buy something at Home Depot."

How can they have a huge store with shelves full but never have what I need?

Bill
 
I have a bunch of extra sight glasses and bezels, in good condition, if anyone is needing any. $5 for a pair (sight glass + bezel). I don't think I have the metal shields with the oil level line on it, but if you are looking for those let me know and I will do a search as well.

The sight glasses can be restored to perfect condition by placing in an oven, but it has been a while since I did any so I will let someone else comment about the proper temperature and the length of time to leave them. I know that I got the information here originally, so I assume that somewhere in the archives the orig. posting still exists.

-Dave
 
Pic of removal tool

Sightglassremovaltool2.jpg
Sightglassremovaltool.jpg


Due to overwhelming demand (please do not embarass me by asking what is "overwhelming demand") I am posting images of the removal tool that I made and that must be similar to the tool Cal made before that.

The pins are placed on a 0.622" radius and spaced 120 degrees. Pins are 01 tool steel and body is 12L14. Pins are pressed into place. The round spigot on the back of the tool served only as a convenient means to hold the piece while it was machined.

Denis
 
I ran across this thread searching the forum. I just made a sight glass removal tool and thought I'd share it. I did have to think a little about showing it because it's so crude compared to Denis'. But for those wanting quick and dirty, this will work. I just used a pencil rubbing over the bezel, and taped it to a piece of scrap. Eyeballed the center punch marks, drilled and used 5/32" roll pins. Popped right out with a couple hammer taps.

DSCN5450_zpsfb5a347a.jpg
 








 
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