Need photo of 1942 round dial 10EE tachometer, and fishing in the headstock
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  1. #1
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    Default Need photo of 1942 round dial 10EE tachometer, and fishing in the headstock

    My EE10's tach is missing the needle and glass and the dial is totally ruined. I'm going to rebuild it. Can someone please take a high-ish resolution photo of a correct dial? You can contact me via the email option or private message option on this website and we can arrange to send to me offline via email.

    Speaking of the tach...Cal had a thread about the difficulties of reinstalling the two nuts that hold the tach on the headstock. Apparently, whoever had my lathe had a similar problem. While draining and cleaning the headstock, I found no less than six of those nuts in the bottom, along with three lock washers and the setscrew that had fallen out of one of the reverse gears.

    I also spend at least a half hour with a magnet, dragging it around the bottom, picking up metal grit and slag, until it eventually came up clean.
    Last edited by Cal Haines; 08-07-2019 at 05:32 PM. Reason: fix title

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    There were three different tachs, from 2500 to 4000 RPM, depending on how the belt ratios were set up. Which one do you have?

    By the way, the model is called a "10EE", not an "EE10". If you search for "EE10", you're going to miss things. Similarly, a future information miner won't be able to find threads that you post if the titles are wrong. I've been correcting your titles as I find them

    Cal

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    How do I tell? Here is a photo of the left side and the drive belt.

    img_5491.jpg

    OK, 10EE is it.

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    Is there enough of the original dial left to see what the top number was? If you post a photo I might be able to tell.

    I'll measure the drive and spindle pulley diameters for you when I work on the collet closer.

    Cal

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    Quote Originally Posted by focusrsh View Post
    How do I tell? Here is a photo of the left side and the drive belt.

    img_5491.jpg

    OK, 10EE is it.
    Round-Dial, MG drive system, 2500 RPM top-end covered most.

    The large-frame 3 HP motor was 670 & 2400 RPM, "nameplate". Monarch pushed them a tad beyond their nameplate as to Armature Voltage, hence RPM.

    The belts now and then had different optioning, ex-factory, and later pulleys have now and then been fitted in the field as well.

    No way we can guess what may have been done as old as these 10EE are. Please measure the pulleys.

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    The spindle pulley is 7.2" OD and the pulley on the motor is6.9" OD.
    Here is a photo of what is left of the dial. I can just make out where 1000 RPM is marked.

    dial.jpg

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    Quote Originally Posted by focusrsh View Post
    The spindle pulley is 7.2" OD and the pulley on the motor is6.9" OD.
    Here is a photo of what is left of the dial. I can just make out where 1000 RPM is marked.

    dial.jpg
    OK. Your tacho top-end was the bog-standard 2500 RPM. To deliver than with a 95% or thereabouts ratio REDUCTION, the nominally 2400 RPM Field Weakened range motor was actually driven at about 2600 RPM.

    Not "published", but several times actually measured within the PM community that was off a higher-than-nameplate Armature Voltage, typically 245-250-265 VDC rather than 230. I run 275 VDC.

    No significant "AC" component" in that either, as Thyristor drives are prone to introduce. MG are "rotating power" sources near as dammit as smooth as a storage battery, but for very minor brush commutation noise.

    Per info right on the motor nameplate, "nominal" field weakening was spec'ed as being the result of insertion of a 400 Ohm current-limiting resistor in series with the nominal 115 VDC Field Supply.

    Field-loss protective circuit cuts-off Armature power at - what? Around 56 VDC?

    Anyway - it has no problem cranking 2600 RPM at motor for 2500 RPM at spindle, and that is when carrying rated load.

    MB: Chucks have RPM limits. Not all sizes or makes are safe to use on a 10EE.


    Now.. tacho refurb..

    A new hand can come from clock supply houses. Or be fabbed,
    I have new movements, fully cased in the form of S-W "Marine/Diesel" tachos bought NOS, but those are 3,500, or 4,000 RPM full-scale as-had. Adjustment and recalibration is tedious, but possible.

    I even have a complete tacho and drivetrain from a 10EE round-dial part-out. Sorry I also have the 10EE round-dial that NEEDs it - damaged same as your one is!

    Dial markings in white are sort of "yellowed" with age and oil-mist deposits, but there are way to clean old dials that the horological tribes use.

    So... what condition is everything BEHIND the dial on your one?

    There may be enough "stuff" between what is inside yours, inside mine, and augmented out of that part-out we can get BOTH back in order off the back off but two dials fabbed "metalphoto" process once we have a negative or positive film as "master".

    Low priority for me.

    I prefer the electronic tachos in any case. They read in both directions, not just the one.

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    Quote Originally Posted by focusrsh View Post
    The spindle pulley is 7.2" OD and the pulley on the motor is6.9" OD.
    Here is a photo of what is left of the dial. I can just make out where 1000 RPM is marked.

    dial.jpg
    Here's a photo of a 2500 RPM tach dial from gears77's EE16315:
    ee16315-img_2126.jpg

    I sent you a high resolution copy of the photo.

    There is no field loss circuit on a motor/generator 10EE and no need for one. About the only way to loose field is for the exciter to fail, which causes the generator powering the armature to also loose it's field and stop generating voltage for the armature. Since the DC control panel is also powered by the exciter, the forward or reverse contactor will open and the dynamic brake resistors will switch in.

    Cal

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cal Haines View Post
    About the only way to loose field is for the exciter to fail, which causes the generator powering the armature to also loose it's field and stop generating voltage for the armature. Since the DC control panel is also powered by the exciter, the forward or reverse contactor will open and the dynamic brake resistors will switch in.
    Fine unless a wire breaks. As happens, even if not often.
    Had one.

    OTOH, the large-frame 3 HP won't overspeed to destruction even if the field is intentionally removed.
    Done that.

    It can sit more than a year unpowered and still make turns, no field, off the remanence.
    Done that.

    Even so, it "uses it up" very rapidly, even if already running.
    Done that.

    Pretty safe, sane, and stable system.
    Durable, too.


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    The tach, other than the dial, appears to be in good condition. Since one of my hobbies is working on antique clocks, I have all the tools to disassemble, clean, oil and reassemble. I'll get a hand from one of my clock suppliers. I'll clean the dial face down to bare metal and print a high-resolution copy.

    My plan is to add a DRO and digital tach to a separate panel. But I thought it would be fun to make the old one work and look nice.

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    Cal-
    I received the photo of the dial. Lovely, thanks.
    - Carl

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    Quote Originally Posted by focusrsh View Post
    The tach, other than the dial, appears to be in good condition. Since one of my hobbies is working on antique clocks....
    You are off to a good start, then.

    "Reluctant" clockie, here! Ten years, I had two good watchmakers on staff. Keeping a clock repairman was harder. Ended up with more tools than enough and just as happy to NOT have to use them. "Saturation" thing, supporting an 18-store retail chain.


    My plan is to add a DRO and digital tach to a separate panel. But I thought it would be fun to make the old one work and look nice.
    I'm torn.

    The dial doesn't face the operator position.

    IF I even rebuild that particular 10EE at all, (it has the worst wear of my two) the temptation is to mount an electronic-analog tacho in a curved housing that DOES point it at the operator position for easier line-of-sight. Plenty of those housings (and tachos) in the auto aftermarket, no need to fab one.

    My power & speed controls (Parker-SSD DC Drive) are also "in hand", operator position, not over by the rear covers, HS end.

    DRO should be digital. Tacho seems best "natural analog" or "simulated analog". ISTR the Jaguar speedo and tach are BOTH actually driven by tiny stepper motors off one of the computer's digital signals. That part is fine.

    But so is the simulated-analog temperature display. And THAT disloyal b***h is programmed to LIE!

    Veglia-Borletti "real" gauges allegedly salvaged from a Jensen Interceptor or such are on hand.

    But so is procrastination.

    So far the procrastination has been kicking ass. Go figure.


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    Quote Originally Posted by thermite View Post
    You are off to a good start, then.

    "Reluctant" clockie, here! Ten years, I had two good watchmakers on staff. Keeping a clock repairman was harder. Ended up with more tools than enough and just as happy to NOT have to use them. "Saturation" thing, supporting an 18-store retail chain.



    I'm torn.

    The dial doesn't face the operator position.

    IF I even rebuild that particular 10EE at all, (it has the worst wear of my two) the temptation is to mount an electronic-analog tacho in a curved housing that DOES point it at the operator position for easier line-of-sight. Plenty of those housings (and tachos) in the auto aftermarket, no need to fab one.

    My power & speed controls (Parker-SSD DC Drive) are also "in hand", operator position, not over by the rear covers, HS end.

    DRO should be digital. Tacho seems best "natural analog" or "simulated analog". ISTR the Jaguar speedo and tach are BOTH actually driven by tiny stepper motors off one of the computer's digital signals. That part is fine.

    But so is the simulated-analog temperature display. And THAT disloyal b***h is programmed to LIE!

    Veglia-Borletti "real" gauges allegedly salvaged from a Jensen Interceptor or such are on hand.

    But so is procrastination.

    So far the procrastination has been kicking ass. Go figure.

    Another example of a communication channel interrupted by white noise. Must have their squelch control adjusted just right.

    Looks like they totally ignored you.

    LOL


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