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Thread: New to me 10EE

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    Pic at this link:
    http://members.cox.net/escarcega/misc/monarch1
    A good friend of mine who is a machine tool dealer picked up this 10EE for me. I've not had a chance to see it in person yet. Price was VERY right. I don't know which drive it has yet. Based on what little can be seen in the picture, anyone have any comments or thoughts about it? Hope to have more info on Monday.

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    Marty, whatever the price is, be sure and check the condition of the ways. And I don't mean a visual inspection. Take indicators, gauge blocks, whatever it will take to check way runout, flatness, and parallelism. A friend of mine bought a very expensive EE, that looked great, only to find the ways worn .008. The ways on my EE were only worn
    .014!!!! And they looked great, all shiny and smooth. Looks like you got a 50's model, probably with a all tube drive, with no reverse/leadscrew option. Price should reflect that. I couldn't tell if it had a taper attachment either, again price. How much tooling comes with it? Original WORKING! electronic drive system or maintenance dept. bodged job? Check that tailstock spindle, seems most of the ones I come across are scraped up and sloppy. A small list but I hope it guides you to the
    "greatest" lathe. Daryl

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    I'm always a little suspicious of a machine with an apparently 'new' paint job - in the sales busienss this is called a 'Rustoleum Rebuild'. I'm also sure that your dealer friend knows this, so perhaps this is a lathe from someone's personal shop that was repainted and well cared for afterwards.

    I sure that you're aware of the tooling cost as well. Be very sure that your friend gets anything that looks like it might be remotely related to the lathe - you don't want to be paying another $250 for a center rest or follower rest unless you have to.

    In addition to the other suggestions I'd add to make sure that you can go through the gears, that the apron controls all work at the appropriate tensions, nothing freewheels that shouldn't when it shouldn't, etc. Be sure that all the sightglasses have oil and that the level goes up when you add oil. You'll want the right oils: the circulating oils (head & gearbox) are Mobil DTE Light (spindle & head, 3 spots for filling), Mobil DTE Medium Heavy (gearbox, one spot for filling and the backgear unit in the base) and Mobil Vactra #2 Way Oil for the apron and tailstock way dinguses. I use the light for the other oiling points. Check that the apron oil pump is working, you should be able to do this by removing the plug from the manifold in the botton of the saddle and seeing if you get oil out. If you do, plug it again and run the carriage back & forth a few dozen times and repull the plug. If you get oil the second time you're likely good to go - on mine that's still waiting for rebuild (Bijur meters should be here this week, then I can start).

    I've got a manual for the 1956 all-tube drive on CD, yours for the asking. All I ask in return is a couple of bucks for materials and the loan of any original Monarch material that you have for scanning, I'll return it afterwards. Right now I have the Monarch 10EE manual, parts sheets (40 or so), installation and tuning instructions, electrical system parts list (tube end only, I'm afraid) and some misc stuff. If I can find a large bed scanner I'll scan the electrical system layout and wiring chart and the good schematic (not the one from the manual).

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    Thanks Guys, will know more tomorrow. I can tell you that what I paid for it, I could part it out and make money. That isn't the intention however. I know about Paint Job rebuilds. I also know about Monarch's *HIGH* prices, so if I have a pattern I may have to resort to making the parts if there are any damaged ones. The fact that all its knobs, levers, handwheels etc are there is a great plus. No tooling bare machine. Not sure on the drive yet, we'll check it out tomorrow. As for wear on the ways, well, there is a GOOD local machine tool rebuilder whom I trust to grind and rescrape if it comes to that. The intent on this lathe is to have just a 5C collet closer on it. I already have a Royal on my LeBlond, I will move it to the Monarch and order the Spindle nose adapter and the longer draw tube for it. I believe I have a source for the Jarno #12 Centers. Then I will only lack a drive plate.

    More tomorrow guys.

    BTW. When you front $75 to Monarch for the manual, are you getting a clean nice printed manual or a copy of a copy? Pictures clean? Drawings clear? They'd better be for that kind of money!
    Marty

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    Hi Marty:
    Your machine looks identical to the one I bought a couple of months ago, right down to the location of the manufacturer's and reseller's nameplates.
    The style of the visible covers points to a similar vintage to mine, but the main switches don't appear to be in the same location as mine.
    I'm guessing that this might be a late forties machine with the motor-generator drive.
    If it is, it will be a 3 phase drive that's supposed to be a bit less traumatic to troubleshoot than a Thyratron drive from the next incarnation.
    A word about ways: mine shows only 0.0025" wear in 60 years of use but it's enough to throw the accuracy out the window.
    I'm getting 0.001" diameter difference in 6" with the machine in it's current condition...the machine is supposed to be good for 0.0001 in 4" factory spec.
    In spite of that, the machine is worth gushing over...it's truly a pleasure to cut steel with it.
    I'm getting my machine out to the way grinder's next week.
    I'll post comments when the bed comes back.
    Cheers

    Marcus

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    NO TUBES! Nameplate says its a 1957 model. Another nameplate shows it originated from the airforce.

    Which drive do I have? Looks like an old DC Drive. I think it said Cutler Hammer DC Control.
    http://members.cox.net/escarcega/Monarch10EE/10EE

    Helluva cabinet on the back! I'm an electrician by trade so if I can get a schematic (anyone?) of it I can trace it out and see if I can get it to go.

    Marty

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    Originally,I think it should have the "works in a drawer" layout. All the tubes slide out on a tray on the tailstock end. Take that end plate off and see whats in there. Looks like its been updated,which I hope is a good thing. And thats all I know. Daryl

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    Daryl. I sort of thought that too, that it might have been upgraded. However, the control cabinet sits on a casting that looks factory and sits on the contour of the base of the machine. I didn't have much chance to open anymore doors. Maybe I missed something?
    It won't be home for about another week.
    Where is the drawer supposed to reside?

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    Marty, Go to the tailstock end, on the base. There is a big plate door with two screened
    windows and two big knurled knobs, one on each side. Half a turn for the knobs and lift that heavy door off. Thats where the original electronics go. Even if the tubes have been done away with, there still should be a huge transformer sitting in there. I have a very original '59 EE and there is no cabinet like that pictured. I sorta believe
    you might have a genuine Monarch "factory"
    upgrade that was done much later in the life of the machine. And that is a good thing. Daryl

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    Could be, especially since the bottomless pit Air Force owned the machine. If that would be the case, I can't help but wonder if I contact Monarch with the serial number if they will be able to tell me.

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    In the words of [email protected] "Absolutely" !

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    Marty,

    The electrical box has all of the parts from the original headstock end - that whole plastic board with the contactors, anti-plugging relay, acceleration relay, etc. The big wire resistors are from the back of the same box. I suspect that what you have is an upgrade of the second tube drive (the one that eliminated most of the tube electronics, but kept the C16Js) where they've replaced the C16Js with some SCR components.

    The pully looks strange, though. What's the speed range on your machine, and is there a way to test the tach on the front when you fire it up?

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    Found 'em! TUBES!
    http://members.cox.net/escarcega/Monarch10EE/10EE

    Tach says it goes up to 3000rpm.

    How do I start up this tube beast. I applied power the red light on the cabinet came on but not much else. I have to be honest. I'm leaning toward a VFD and a 3 phase motor coupled to the original gearbox. If that's the route I choose, I may sell the tubes and other parts of the drive. I can't bring myself to spending upwards of $500 for one Thyratron.

    Marty

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    Them's tubes alright. Lee DeForest would be proud.

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    Howard Gorin Guest

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    Before you replace the DC drive with a VFD, look a solid state DC controlers. Keep the drive motor and replace the control. The shunt wound DC motor has more power at low speeds and ou keep the back gear box

  16. #16
    D. Thomas Guest

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    Marty, re replacing the drive, have you read the very first post in the Monarch Lathes Forum yet...."10ee drive, repair or replace ?" (which was pasted from an old Chaski thread as I recall)

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    Originally posted by D. Thomas:
    Marty, re replacing the drive, have you read the very first post in the Monarch Lathes Forum yet...."10ee drive, repair or replace ?" (which was pasted from an old Chaski thread as I recall)
    Can't spot this thread Don....URL?
    Marty

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    Originally posted by Howard Gorin:
    Before you replace the DC drive with a VFD, look a solid state DC controlers. Keep the drive motor and replace the control. The shunt wound DC motor has more power at low speeds and ou keep the back gear box
    Suggestions of brand and model controller?
    I have the 3HP motor.


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    Marty, this is just my opinion and think of it as you may, BUT. I would would seriously think about getting that tube drive going before you chuck the whole thing. If those big thyratrons are bad, then OK, but I bet they're not. You just don't have the right power going to the right place. Make sure what voltage it's setup for, 460 or 230
    3 phase. Remember this tube drive can be run on 220 single phase without a converter. If
    one of the guys in this thread can supply you with the proper schematic,it shows how to rewire the transformers for 220,230 single phase. This is really a sophisticated drive system, and I believe Forrest Addy would agree that a VFD would not be a great
    improvement. Just a thought. If you do decide to chuck it, let me know, I want the parts.Seriously. Daryl

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    I'll keep my options open. Would like to know what the field and armature voltages this motor requires to operate and if there is anything special about the motor itself. If I decide to sell the tube drive, I'll offer it to the group first before going to eBay with it. I would like to see if I can get the machine going with the current drive first, even before disassembly.


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