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New to me 1962 10 EE, troubleshooting and repair

medic29

Aluminum
Joined
Feb 17, 2013
Location
Pesotum
I recently picked up a lathe I had been wanting for quite some time, a Monarch 10 EE, it was manufactured 06/1962 and is a square dial machine. I was told it would run on single phase 220v. When I went to pick it up, they wired it up to 3 phase 220v and it ran well. I had been told it was supposed to have a max speed of 4000 RPM, but would max out around 1800 RPM. It seems like it had a higher RPM when I ran it prior to getting it loaded when I picked it up, but after I got it home it doesn't seem to go any faster than 1800 RPM. Initially I did wire it to single phase 220v and it ran, but ended up wiring it up to 3 phase 220v to see if that would make any difference in RPMs, but it didn't.

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Most things work as they should as far as I've been able to tell with exception of the max RPMs, although it seems there is an issue with the dynamic breaking. I decided to open up all of the various compartments to look at things and see if I can see anything obvious which needs addressed. Well...:eek: :( 20210731_184557.jpg 20210731_184648.jpg

So it appears I need to replace some wiring. But...I'm not sure how I'm going to be able to replace the wire which leads to the top of that tube?

As always, I am open to comments, suggestions, or ideas.
 
Medic

Congratulations on you 10ee.
The tailstock on you 10ee is different than most. What Morris taper is it?

Hal
 
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Monarch Machine Tool Co. - Publication Reprints - Model 10EE Manual | VintageMachinery.org



Monarch Machine Tool Co. - Publication Reprints | VintageMachinery.org


The first link is for a owners manual for your era 10eeThe second link is for a wealth of other Monarch information.There is a good explanation of the electrical system in your era 10ee either in the manual or in one of the other links on V M.org.
I had it downloaded but lost it in a computer crash. Bill has already gave you good information. There is a lot of good troubleshooting threads already here on this forum . Use google to search , not PM's search engine. You will get P.M. forum hits on google. .There will be experienced help coming.
 
There is a pump in the apron that lubricates the apron and the carriage. Make sure that its lubricating. They are known to be problematic. Small copper tubes, relief valves and orifice's
 
As always, I am open to comments, suggestions, or ideas.

You have a square dial Modular 10EE, square dial from the square dial over the thread/feed selector and "modular" from some of the logic being in a black "module" box.

If you put single phase 220 to L1 and L3 you should have a running lathe. You'll need L2 if you have coolant (I don't see a spigot).

You might try folding out the tube panel and running the lathe. If you see only one of the big tubes firing that might be the cause of the low maximum speed. If you see that try swapping the tubes and see if the non-firing one then fires and the previously firing one doesn't. Hopefully the problem follows the tube as that's a quick fix with a tube replacement.
 
Medic

Congratulations on you 10ee.
The tailstock on you 10ee is different than most. What Morris taper is it?

Hal

I'm not sure yet. That is one of the things I still need to investigate. I didn't realize the tail stock was not native to this lathe, but now looking at the pictures of others, mine doesn't look like them. :)
 
There is a pump in the apron that lubricates the apron and the carriage. Make sure that its lubricating. They are known to be problematic. Small copper tubes, relief valves and orifice's

It's not lubricating. That's on my list as well. Not sure where the pump is or how to check into this other than to start taking the compound off and the cross slide.
 
Spent a few hours this afternoon labeling wires and pulled this from the lathe shop I can take it into the workshop where it is climate controlled. Will be taking a closer look at things. I know there are several wires that need replaced, considering replacing all of them while I'm at it. Ordered one of those 500 ohm, 100 watt resistors to replace the one on the unit there that is essentially falling apart.
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That’s not a monarch tailstock…….

Kevin

Your tailstock looks to be from a R series Sheldon lathe. If the taper is 3MT, it should be from an R-13. If it is 4MT, it should be from an R-15 or R-17 lathe.
 
What's the best thing to use to clean the inside compartments? I hear a lot of people use Brake cleaner, which smells a lot like Naptha, which is what dad always used in the garage years ago. Are there other products which would remove the years of grime, oil and the like??
 
What's the best thing to use to clean the inside compartments? I hear a lot of people use Brake cleaner, which smells a lot like Naptha, which is what dad always used in the garage years ago. Are there other products which would remove the years of grime, oil and the like??

I use diesel fuel in a cheap one gallon lawn sprayer from your usual big box stores. Allows you to blast various areas, using copious quantities to flush crud out at a cheap price. Similar enough to kerosene that it won't hurt anything that typically sits in oil.
 
I like slathering on cheap, pumice-free, plain-jane "Goop" waterless hand cleaner. Scrub-in with shoe polish dauber or chip brush.

It is only a lathe. Not a whole aircraft carrier.

Let it "stew". The grease and swarf "mud" dissolves. Dig out the big chunks in the corners with a wooden door-jamb wedge,

Do it again with a chip brush. No real stink. Not going to poison you nor destroy your lungs or vision. Easily interrupted if you have to wander-off.

Bit of work every third day, and it soon wipes CLEAN with newsprint, paper towels, or those cheap arse made in Inja bundles of alleged "shop towels" that were only good for one use, regardless.

No harm to wire, rubber, fine surfaces, nor even halfway decent paint.

And less harm to YOU!

Try it. It takes crud off your hands, don't it? Works on metal or painted surfaces just as well.

Gearboxes one flushes with ignorant kerosene. It was what most makers used and recommended. And what the seals they shipped expected to have to survive.

Exotic solvents can destroy some seals and gaskets. Not kind to non-metallic bearing cages, either.

Wow, never thought out using Goop, actually got some in the shop that I use to clean up with after I'm done working. This is a great idea.
 
I use diesel fuel in a cheap one gallon lawn sprayer from your usual big box stores. Allows you to blast various areas, using copious quantities to flush crud out at a cheap price. Similar enough to kerosene that it won't hurt anything that typically sits in oil.

I HAVE .. a couple... of those "wand" blasters for use with the air compressor.

Engine Cleaning Gun | Northern Tool + Equipment

ISTR H-F has one much cheape?
They'll suck the kerosene, Varsol, Diesel - whatever - through a line, as needed, but ...

I no longer have the environment that can deal with any significant amount of it as it comes back OFF the machines, so they have been idle for ages.

If you can move the machine onto a vis-queen polyvinly sheet, protected with a sacrificial olefin tarp over top of it, then pick up the edges with a nailed-up 1-by "box" as an in-place catchment basin to control the effluvia?

Then you have more options.

Another great idea. Now a somewhat dumb question maybe, can this be used on the electrical wiring that appears to have an oily residue on them? I'm kind of thinking probably not, especially if still connected to the transformers and such. But it never hurts to ask. As I've told others, the only stupid question is the one that wasn't asked. :)
 
Electrical Power Unit - rewiring

I folded down the power unit several days ago and saw a bunch of wires where the insulation was gone, then discovered the insulation was deteriorated and literally falls off when touched. So, I decided I was going to need to rewire the majority of the power unit. I began by labeling everything I could so I could put everything back together. I also have a manual specific to my lathe with a bunch of schematics; I just wish I could read them better. :(
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So, I discovered many of the wires where the insulation was in bad condition were connected to the back of the receptacle; I was able to remove it from the power unit and saw that I had everything labeled and started removing the wires from the receptacle. While I was doing this I realized there was a drawing in the schematics of the back of the receptacle which showed the pinout which when I initially looked at it corresponded to the numbers I had on the wires, so I felt confident I had nothing to worry about. :ill: Confidence while working on a project...for the first time...is a killer.

I got all the wires removed from the receptacle, then noted on two pins there were two wires connected; no problem I have that drawing in the manual. :cryin: Then I began connecting the new wires which I had made previously and labeled, so all I needed to do was solder them to the corresponding pins. But...now I have wires with no corresponding pin number and I have empty pins, plus the drawing doesn't show any pins with more than one wire (actually there are only numbers which typically correspond to where they attach to the terminals).

So now I'm a bit scared and nervous. If I was better at reading the schematics this would probably be a none issue, but the knowledge I have about schematics is extremely basic. So, I'm hoping someone on here can rescue me. :)

I'll be going back out into the shop in a little bit, with fingers crossed, hoping I'll be able to figure it out; I still have that nagging feeling in my gut that I screwed it up and am afraid I just killed my lathe versus fixing it. :cryin:

As always, any and all help is greatly appreciated!!!

Rick
 
Another great idea. Now a somewhat dumb question maybe, can this be used on the electrical wiring that appears to have an oily residue on them? I'm kind of thinking probably not, especially if still connected to the transformers and such. But it never hurts to ask. As I've told others, the only stupid question is the one that wasn't asked. :)

I would not.

For cleaning up electrical I'd use spray can electrical contact cleaner. Works sort of like brake kleen, and terrible fumes like it too, but cleans and de-greases fairly well. Just use ventilation, or spray it before leaving the shop for the evening.
 
I would not.

For cleaning up electrical I'd use spray can electrical contact cleaner. Works sort of like brake kleen, and terrible fumes like it too, but cleans and de-greases fairly well. Just use ventilation, or spray it before leaving the shop for the evening.

Okay, I hadn't thought about that...duh.
 
I got all the wires removed from the receptacle, then noted on two pins there were two wires connected; no problem I have that drawing in the manual. :cryin: Then I began connecting the new wires which I had made previously and labeled, so all I needed to do was solder them to the corresponding pins. But...now I have wires with no corresponding pin number and I have empty pins, plus the drawing doesn't show any pins with more than one wire (actually there are only numbers which typically correspond to where they attach to the terminals).

So now I'm a bit scared and nervous. If I was better at reading the schematics this would probably be a none issue, but the knowledge I have about schematics is extremely basic. So, I'm hoping someone on here can rescue me. :)


Rick

Rick,
First off, I applaud you for tackling this. Sounds like your machine was awfully close to dying in a flash of sparks. Or just a failure to start one day. Labeling is good. Labeling plus lots of cell phone pictures is better. Video camera is even better. Whether dealing with wiring, or mechanical disassembly, you can never make too many notes. But that's hindsight.

You'll need to share pictures and schematics for anyone to help. I have the schematics from a '64, but if you have the Monarch manual per your serial number that's going to be a lot better. And my '64 was gutted of the original DC controller, so even if they were identical that doesn't help much. But, several people on here are good with schematics. I have even been known to use one. And some of the experts here can really dig into those in detail.

Worst case, Pesotum looks to be about 2.5 hours drive from me. But lets save traveling as a last resort.
 
For mild cleaning I use isopropyl alcohol. It is not very aggressive, but evaporates completely and isn't such a fume hazard. Nor do I worry about occasional exposure on my skin.

Yeah, we can finally get isopropyl alcohol again. Needed some last year for a situation and everyone was gobbling it up d/t pandemic fear. Ugh, soap and water people, works wonders!!! LOL :)

I'll have to pick some up next time out.
 








 
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