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  1. #121
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    Quote Originally Posted by thermite View Post
    Oil Eater: Heavy Duty Degreaser | Cleaners, Degreasers & Equipment

    They have competition. Plenty of it. "DIY" included.
    Thanks!

    Ron

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    Donnie I guess I should have said you should start a new thread on the care and use of a 10ee.

    I'm sure it would be well received.

    Hal

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    Quote Originally Posted by 220swift View Post
    Donnie I guess I should have said you should start a new thread on the care and use of a 10ee.

    I'm sure it would be well received.

    Hal
    If be interested in that. New to me 1962 10 EE, troubleshooting and repair

    Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk

  5. #124
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    Quote Originally Posted by donie View Post
    Un solder the diodes, right off I suspect the c3j field tube, you must have spares of those, dont expect one off ebay will work, dont expect one that looks good will work. it is just one of those things,
    The field tube powers many functions with the switches in the right hand compartment, through the bridge rectifiers in the control module. I believe with the module installed the motor field is getting enough volts to keep the field loss relay from shutting the machine down, With the module removed the machine should run a 2500 or so, this indicated to me a weak c3j field tube, tripping the field loss relay. remove any chucks when doing the module removed test because of speed.
    OK, it is imperative to have a known working c3j tube to continue, myself had to purchase a few to be on top 0f it.
    Next, obtain 600volt 3amp diodes, diodes are diodes but pushing the Machine to its limits, the pros have found 600v 3amp diode to be more durable. The two diodes in rectifier 3 will be the most stressed, and they get hot and start leaking back. /diodes are expendable, that is why they are in easy to change snap holders. Note the two trim pots at the top of the module, one is speed/load compensation, the other is top speed. Mark and drill the module cover at those locations, so adjustment can be made without removing the cover, and you can access it because you removed the door lock solenoid, yowser! Now if you find you want the module cover off when running, secure the open module to the board, make a sleeve and use a nut on the stud. The diodes can explode under certain conditions throwing hot plastic out, wear safety glasses, and dont touch powered up diodes.

    I want you to disconnect the left hand electronic compartment door safety solenoid, and the solenoid that prevents shifting to backgear above 200 rpms, we will always stop the machine when shifting into backgear from now on, as it should always been done. Those solenoids get old and will load the circuits, and we do not need safety devices to prevent us from shocking discoveries
    This poorly run forum is hostile to me, I am the last professional that will post here "only at times" I could be gone without any notice, I like the machines but I am not tolerant with trolls. fools, and girly men that censor!
    Just saying, best take advantage of the situation while you can! You are either in it to win it, or another bum with a fancy machine.

    Here is a quick video on the module/
    Monarch 10ee lathe Module control diode replacement - YouTube

    Some time ago, I realized that folks have bought these machines, but have never seen them run, or the nature of the drive system on the Monarch 10 ee module drive, behold,
    Monarch 10 ee lathe Module drive warm up! - YouTube
    A lot of info here, thanks.

    Working on getting a replacement tube or more. If you have ideas where I can get a dependable replacement you can email me the info, [email protected]

    Thanks again for the info.

    Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk

  6. #125
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    Just remember you now have a life line to me on youtube.
    Guess what folks, this person came here for help, got bad advice, and this time caused damage to the machine by soldering the diodes in! The problems here are now way of control!
    Great job hobbyist, and your racist forum troll!
    I have a new name for this crowd "The Round Dials" poor. helpless, and worthless.
    Mr Moderator, congratulations on you accomplishment!
    Oh well, thats what happens when you give each other so many likes!

  7. #126
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    There is a guy that makes a electronic replacement for the modular unit and electronic replacement for the tubes also.
    A few that have used them gave great reviews.
    A search should turn up something, you might have to use google.

    Hal

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    Me being a skeptic, you know like not falling for the termite stacked ripple thing that has been in development for a decade.
    I wonder if those solid state replacement would hold up to someone like me that really works the machine.
    I know the electronics can be intimidating, what happened here is simple lack of experience from those that are here, that I think mean well, but got lost in the more then 80 wires.
    Almost 20yrs ago we fixed these on this forum with help from Monarch tech all the time. Then the termite showed up, insulted [email protected], he left, then one by one, anyone with experience, or anyone that shows up here with good machines, is promptly run off.
    And here we are today. tsk tsk

  9. #128
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    Donie
    I was glad to see you back. You have so much you could share. I have been in the background on this forum since the days when your Threads and posts were full great stuff that helped the masses.
    You have let one member run you off and I suspect that you are consumed with hate.


    The present day forum members may not meet your approval. So what !

    Don't blame the moderator. He isn't a babysitter.

    I respect what you know , but you are not going to change anything with your terrmite rants. Kids call names.

    Write a step by step trouble shooting guide an the different Monarch electrical systems. Offer your knowledge for future.

    I'm not a political guy and am not on this forum to judge anyone but you are so consumed with hate and its useless here on the forum.

    As the old machinist that ran these lathes age and pass on there will be more of these machines will fall into the hands of what you call hobby owners. Like me. Ill tell you something. There are a lot of trades out there that require just as much mechanical skill as your trade. Don't judge people and be so full of yourself . You may be good at what you do but your no Idol.

    SHARE YOUR KNOWLEDGE and lose the hatred. STOP

    Please

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    Medic29
    Sorry about my disruptive post.

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  13. #130
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    Quote Originally Posted by mllud22 View Post
    Medic29
    Sorry about my disruptive post.
    You did nothing, but fall victim of the fact that "one person" who the moderator allowed to intimidate me, and threaten my family! along with multiple others.
    This one "person" has driven everyone else off that has in the fucking field experience!
    Dont worry, you did nothing wrong, you are in great shape because your machine runs.
    I will help you directly, and save you from this sewer, that should have been roto routered years ago.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 220swift View Post
    There is a guy that makes a electronic replacement for the modular unit and electronic replacement for the tubes also.
    A few that have used them gave great reviews.
    A search should turn up something, you might have to use google.

    Hal
    Thanks for the reminder, Hal.

    Well covered, "Right here, on PM". Tim's products - improved diode "plus-plus" "module" replacements as well as tubes:

    For Monarch 10ee Lathe

    C16J thyratron tube replacement

    Some believed it could work. I, honestly, was a sceptic. Strong skeptic. The triggering is different. Welllll.. not THAT different, as it turned out.

    Then Tim PROVED it could work.
    Followed General Pershing's comment on the Corps of Engineers:

    The Scientists said that it couldn't be done. But the damned fool Engineer didn't KNOW that. So he DID it!

    Several tested. Tim improved it.

    And then it was "golden". Rock solid goods. WELL proven by several users now.

    Nobody has to chase scarce Argon tubes for silly-money any longer.

    Some HAVE wished to add LED's for the coloured light show, though!
    Nothing to "watch on TV", y'see. see.

    Go figure it just makes the spindle turn!



    I had learned ... too slowly.. that Tim was right.

    But even slow learning is better than "NEVER", ain't it?
    Or so I tell the wife of 31 years and.. hopefully.. still counting?

    Learning? Not a BAD thing, is it?
    Last edited by thermite; 09-02-2021 at 09:58 PM.

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    Dont buy this unproven stuff, use the real thing, no Youtube video on any of these wishful ideas, it has all been done before, ...

    When debugging a module drive, do not experiment with other things. Those that want to learn can learn enough to enjoy their machine just as I have.
    You will never learn a module drive unless you own one, and are in it to win it, spending the money is a great motivator, all others its Puny Drive For you!
    Last edited by Cal Haines; 09-03-2021 at 12:51 AM. Reason: off topic rant deleted

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    I'm thoroughly impressed there's a C16J replacement at such low cost! I was hoarding away some real C16Js for a rainy day, marked on all 6 sides of the box so future generations won't immediately gondola them (!!) Kind of hoping to never have to use them because "what then?" but now I will sleep a little sounder

  18. #134
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    I put a new set of c16js in my fast machine 20yrs ago, I have found no reason to lose sleep.
    Just where exactly is the problem with vacuum tubes? The inconvenience of waiting a minute for the filament timer.
    ...
    Last edited by Cal Haines; 09-03-2021 at 12:52 AM. Reason: off topic rant deleted

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    Quote Originally Posted by matt_isserstedt View Post
    I'm thoroughly impressed there's a C16J replacement at such low cost! I was hoarding away some real C16Js for a rainy day, marked on all 6 sides of the box so future generations won't immediately gondola them (!!) Kind of hoping to never have to use them because "what then?" but now I will sleep a little sounder
    LOL! They are actually pretty rugged.. AND stable ... as such things go.

    The servo amps in a MIM-14b (NIKE Hercules, Improved) were LINEARS. Derived from the War Two "Radar Gun director". Trays of push-pull-parallel 6L6 beam power pentodes! THOSE were meant to be aligned by a minimum two-man team.. every SIX HOURS! Maximum 12-foot Circular Probability of Error, ninety miles out ... and FAST was the payoff!

    But there you have it. Vacuum tubes COULD do a Helluva job. Our "Mothership" AN/FSQ-7 SAGE Air Battle Computer ran 60 thousand of them split over a pair of twins. One half "on duty", the other half having predictive failure analysis performed and shopping carts full of tubes swapped out, HOT! 3 Mega Watt power draw needed its own cooling pond.

    Back then, few ever imagined the vacuum tube would go hard to find, let alone expensive!

    Human nature:

    - Everything a person OWNS is the wisest possible choice.

    - Whatever the OTHER guy runs is inferior! Deer rifles, pickup trucks, brands of beer, wore-out tennis shoes, shiddy politicians.. .

    "Run what you got!"


    Wherever and HOWEVER you FEEL like running it.

    Change to something else on your preference.
    Or not.

    10EE's D1-3 spindle doesn't really give a damn where it gets its meals.

    So long as they are smooth and powerful "enough" to do the job you ask of it.

    Belt drives are just that way..

    Last edited by thermite; 09-03-2021 at 04:12 AM.

  20. #136
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    Default Even more puzzled than before

    Well I've heard the 10EE should run without the module. Mine doesn't; you can see what happens in this VIDEO. The PC closes, then opens again when the start button is released. When I re-install the module, then the PC will latch and the lathe will run, just not correctly.

    New tube
    I had purchased what I was told was a good tube and it does appear to be a working tube, but I went and looked for a "new" tube and found one that was claimed to be NOS and from appearances, it does appear that way. Take a look at this VIDEO. So I installed this tube in the system and it continues to act the same.


    When I run the lathe as fast as it will go, one of the C16J glows purple and the other kind of does. At slower RPMs, the one the primary C16J tube, the one that glows purple at high RPMs, will intermittently fire; the faster the RPM the quicker it fires, the slower the RPM, the slower frequency it fires. I have a couple of videos demonstrating this.

    VIDEO 1
    VIDEO 2


    Since the lathe is supposed to run without the module, I think I need to scour over the schematic, then take another look at the power unit and see if I've got a wire connected at the wrong place. Something that would cause the lathe not to work without the module, but allows it to work with the module attached. I wish there were someone within driving distance that I could go and compare my power unit to theirs.

    Again, I'm all ears for any thoughts..

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    Quote Originally Posted by medic29 View Post
    Well I've heard the 10EE should run without the module. Mine doesn't; you can see what happens in this VIDEO. The PC closes, then opens again when the start button is released. When I re-install the module, then the PC will latch and the lathe will run, just not correctly.

    New tube
    I had purchased what I was told was a good tube and it does appear to be a working tube, but I went and looked for a "new" tube and found one that was claimed to be NOS and from appearances, it does appear that way. Take a look at this VIDEO. So I installed this tube in the system and it continues to act the same.


    When I run the lathe as fast as it will go, one of the C16J glows purple and the other kind of does. At slower RPMs, the one the primary C16J tube, the one that glows purple at high RPMs, will intermittently fire; the faster the RPM the quicker it fires, the slower the RPM, the slower frequency it fires. I have a couple of videos demonstrating this.

    VIDEO 1
    VIDEO 2


    Since the lathe is supposed to run without the module, I think I need to scour over the schematic, then take another look at the power unit and see if I've got a wire connected at the wrong place. Something that would cause the lathe not to work without the module, but allows it to work with the module attached. I wish there were someone within driving distance that I could go and compare my power unit to theirs.

    Again, I'm all ears for any thoughts..
    If you have not already done this, switch the tubes left and right.

    If the intermittent firing follows the tube? The tube itself is sub-par.

    If the intermittent firing is the same "side" / socket with the swapped tube in it that was proven to work OK in the OTHER socket?

    The control/trigger circuit is where the fault lies.
    NB: We already know this to be the case, but kindly go through the motions, anyway.

    Standard fault-isolation step. It will serve you well in future. After the present issues are corrected. And when the tubes DO come to end-of-life, many years from now.

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  23. #138
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    Quote Originally Posted by thermite View Post
    If you have not already done this, switch the tubes left and right.

    If the intermittent firing follows the tube? The tube itself is sub-par.

    If the intermittent firing is the same "side" / socket with the swapped tube in it that was proven to work OK in the OTHER socket?

    The control/trigger circuit is where the fault lies.
    NB: We already know this to be the case, but kindly go through the motions, anyway.

    Standard fault-isolation step. It will serve you well in future. After the present issues are corrected. And when the tubes DO come to end-of-life, many years from now.
    Makes sense. I'll give that a shot in the morning.

    Thanks!!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by medic29 View Post
    Makes sense. I'll give that a shot in the morning.

    Thanks!!!
    Light reading, meanwhile.. Note how they are gated or triggered into conduction. The tube - or an SCR - is otherwise brute-force dumb. Control circuit is the crucial part. "Control" means exactly what it sounds like.

    Thyratron - Wikipedia

    Note the reference sources. One can find example circuits and even course material.

    I used to have ... a lovely hardbound book printed about the time the 10EE was new. Gift of a degreed Physics mentor, and the company Chief Engineer.. with around a dozen patents.

    It covered all manner of servo and control electronics circuits with the explanations suited to a University course.

    Every one of them implemented with thermionic valves. Transistors were still in the far future. So... I built my first Eccles-Jordan bi-stable ... with vacuum tubes!

    It was all I had .... that was quieter than relays...

    Well "quieter" acoustically.

    I didn't get my first Oscilloscope until age 9, so got away with that mysterious interference in the AM radio, downstairs, for a while!
    We didn't yet OWN a television.

    Had to watch the "Army McCarthy Hearings" on G'Mum's 7-inch Dumont? Soon upgraded to a Philco with NINE-inch screen!

    Army–McCarthy hearings - Wikipedia

    TV was pretty boring back when watching paint dry was considered cheap thrills for those in the "fast lane". Reg'lar folk - those with more patience - settled for watching the grass grow. Or reading Harry Truman's latest fool defense of sugar rationing in the funny-papers.

    Birthrate was higher then, too. One wonders if that was cause or effect?



    Now?

    Everything is moving to 'second hand thrills'.. over on "You Tube"?

    Too Many Cuckoos Spoil The Aluminium

    Go figure some cuckoos @ seven bottles short of a six-pack can spoil Cast Iron as well?

    A Parker-SSD is not EVEN de-rated at all....until above 40C (104 F).

    Your Modular drive, in good condition, can also operate at temperatures YOU cannot physically stand!

    No end to the cackling nonsense one can find on You Tube, is there?

    T'was ever thus...

    We need the eggs.
    Last edited by thermite; 09-05-2021 at 05:41 AM.

  25. #140
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    The Klixon from a Google search appears to be a thermostatic switch. It appears to be connected to wires 5 & 6 in the power unit compartment. How much would it affect the lathe if not working properly? I'm thinking it needs replacing, would there be a modern replacement?

    See photos


    Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk


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