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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by rakort View Post
    Off, forgot to answer....just a safety nut, engineering manager here in a paper mill where safety trumps everything...its in my blood. I added two "coast" wanabee estop buttons to the vertical mill I just revived from the dead with a vfd (i.e no braking).
    This lathe has a lot more snort than that mill and I wana be able to stop it!

    I liked an idea I saw recently to restoring an old AB foot switch to act as an estop trip.
    Many lathes have a wide foot-bar for a mechanical brake that also cuts power, my Cazeneuve, and most Korean/Taiwanese units sold in far higher volume among those. That can be a convenience, every day, all-day just as much as an emergency stop, so it is "on my menu".

    Goods to do the braking can come from the ATV supply chain. Airheart and others offer a short-ton of options in internally expanding drum brakes, external band-type drum, and many disk types.
    Actuation can be mechanical, hydraulic, or air operated.

    Warner Electric, Dings, & Sputniks - think offshore groundskeeping mowers - have the electric + spring operated ones, too from around a hundred bucks on up.

    Hopefully, you'll beat me to completion so I can learn from your project!


  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by thermite View Post
    Many lathes have a wide foot-bar for a mechanical brake that also cuts power, my Cazeneuve, and most Korean/Taiwanese units sold in far higher volume among those. That can be a convenience, every day, all-day just as much as an emergency stop, so it is "on my menu".

    Goods to do the braking can come from the ATV supply chain. Airheart and others offer a short-ton of options in internally expanding drum brakes, external band-type drum, and many disk types.
    Actuation can be mechanical, hydraulic, or air operated.

    Warner Electric, Dings, & Sputniks - think offshore groundskeeping mowers - have the electric + spring operated ones, too from around a hundred bucks on up.

    Hopefully, you'll beat me to completion so I can learn from your project!


    My intent is to not add a mechanical brake, but to utilize the machine's native electrical braking circuit. It would be theoretical possible to add a brake on the end of the DC drive motor...not sure how many space constraints there are however.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by rakort View Post
    My intent is to not add a mechanical brake, but to utilize the machine's native electrical braking circuit. It would be theoretical possible to add a brake on the end of the DC drive motor...not sure how many space constraints there are however.
    Regardless of power source,(DC or AC+VFD), ONLY a stout set of braking resistors that are arranged to drop ONLINE when all power fails.. will do any good in a true emergency.

    IOW .. conventionally-wired MG, WiaD, Modular, Solid-State 4Q DC Drive (no braking resistors atall) suffer the same malaise as a VFD drive (braking resistors "seldom") if/as/when "mains" power goes walkabout.

    Coast-down, best-case.

    A foot brake treadle, AND/OR knee-kick bar to a mechanical brake IS easy - nothing close to the HP needed for a motorcar nor even a light ATV or lawn tractor - and WOULD be a nice-to-have critter, just to speed normal cycle-time.

    The larger and heavier Cazeneuve (14" X 30, 7+ HP) gets by with simply pulling tension on a sacrificial section of ignorant Vee-belt wrapped around a pulley.

    Hardinge's far lighter lathes used a first-cousin to bleedin' wine-bottle CORKS!

    So yeah.. a Donkey-Cart class clutch, Warner-Electric sized plate-type "disk" brake applied to the face of the drive sheave at the motor/gearbox, sheathed cable or rod & bellcrank actuated, or anything more clever-yet right on the spindle, any/all with a power cut-off switch so as to fight inertia, but NOT ALSO fight a powerd-ON motor, and "done deal".

    Hem's sake - "Taiwanese Generic" and even Chicom El Cheapo lathes have that much these days.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by rakort View Post
    so few more dumb newb questions if you yalls don't mind?

    what is an appropriate ratio to drive the exciter generator?

    Attachment 223307

    Attachment 223308


    ?

    thanks
    rak
    The very early piggy-back MG sets used a generator with a large pulley. 1-to-1 (ish) is correct for your exciter and you appear to have original pulleys.

    Cal

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    Quote Originally Posted by rakort View Post
    This looks like project in itself?

    Clutch seems sketchy....maybe just flush it out with carb cleaner and hope for the best? I hear the setscrews are a bitch.
    Attachment 223309
    The feed-rod clutch appears to be (at least partially) disengaged. The gear teeth on the gearbox output shaft should be flush with the headstock end of the clutch collar. It may be that the setscrew that retains the clutch collar is messed up. Here's more information on the clutch: Cal

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by rakort View Post
    WTB......anyone got a half nut lever? I haven't been able to get mine to move.....probably why the knob is broken off the end. Possibly a frozen up interlock pin / ball / spring?

    Attachment 223311
    You can try pushing the direction plunger all the way in and then slooooowly pulling it out while holding pressure on the half-nut lever. The interlock is a very simple affair: the half nut lever moves a flat slider to the left when turned, if the corresponding slot in the plunger shaft lines up, the slider will drop in, allowing the half-nuts to close and locking the plunger in place so that the feeds can't be simultaneously engaged. You're going to want to pull the carriage and apron for a good cleaning and to check out the Bijur metering system anyway, that's the time to check this out.

    In the past, guys have annealed a ball bearing, drilled it for a pin and then brazed it to damaged levers like this.

    Cal

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cal Haines View Post
    You can try pushing the direction plunger all the way in and then slooooowly pulling it out while holding pressure on the half-nut lever. The interlock is a very simple affair: the half nut lever moves a flat slider to the left when turned, if the corresponding slot in the plunger shaft lines up, the slider will drop in, allowing the half-nuts to close and locking the plunger in place so that the feeds can't be simultaneously engaged. You're going to want to pull the carriage and apron for a good cleaning and to check out the Bijur metering system anyway, that's the time to check this out.

    In the past, guys have annealed a ball bearing, drilled it for a pin and then brazed it to damaged levers like this.

    Cal
    Thanks for the tip on the half nut lever operation. Maybe when everything is cleaned up and operating smoothly it won't be a problem, but if the interlock is finicky it must be a problem when in use....cause when you want to hit your mark on the threading dial you don't want to miss!

    I will pull the carriage and apron at some point here I do understand that is important....too many projects, LOL!

    I have been pondering repairs of the half nut lever including brazing or silver soldering a new ball on there.

    My latest thought is to cut back the lever some to where it is thicker and drill a hole down the center of the handle and fab a new handle / ball and insert it into the drilled hole. Might even be able to get it to look similar to the original handle.

  8. #28
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    Pulling the carriage and apron is a "must do" piece of maintenance for a newly acquired 10EE, especially considering the things you're seeing elsewhere. I wouldn't run the machine without doing that first. You can do it in an afternoon.

    Cal

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    Well back at this project.

    Pulled the DC control panel last night for thorough inspection, cleaning, and repairs. It's a bit of a hot mess.

    Has issues with contactors, arc flash chutes, and tunes of nasty oil at the bottom. Good news the braking resistors appear ok (to be tested), the interconnecting wire to the machine is all original (three different gauges) and all appears to be serviceable.

    img_20180324_000337574.jpg

    img_20180324_000346606.jpg

    img_20180324_001306454.jpg

    img_20180324_001400560.jpg

    img_20180324_001758387.jpg


    I'll be checking out the other major components in the future before I dig into this. Is it possible to get replacement contactor parts?

    Any ideas on a good method to clean oil saturated wires? Brake clean and keep it out of the coils / OLs?

  10. #30
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    DC Panel

    img_20180324_003507055.jpg

  11. #31
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    Purple degreaser spritzed on will get rid of the oil. Then wipe with a shop towel. Its at most any big box lumber/hardware store.

    Monarch has parts. They must all be gold plated, judging by the price. In the case of a contactor, complete replacement with a generic unit would be the most cost effective. just need to find the coil voltage and match that.

    I still have a brake resistor, seen it just a few days ago. I *may* have the entire drive *if* I can find it. I never toss anything but it has been 20 years.

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    Tested out the dynamic brake resisters and came up with ~ 12 ohms. The two were both very close to this so I'm assuming they are good.....sans a layer of funk that should come off so as to not create a hot spot on the wire and let them burn out.

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    Apron removal and restoration part 1

    everything came apart just fine. now just need to separate the lead screws from the TS end bracket and deal with those bearings and clean the screw and rod.

    img_20180324_220625725.jpg
    img_20180324_220630340.jpg
    img_20180324_220635551.jpg
    img_20180324_220642636.jpg
    img_20180324_221419051.jpg

  14. #34
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    Default inline images

    what am I missing in regards to posting inline images? How does one do that?

  15. #35
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    so the rod/screw came out of the bracket...an interesting exercise for sure. no retaining clip for the lead screw was installed. Looking to get a $5 deal off of fleabay for some new bearings although the existing ones are probably fine.

    img_20180324_231259280.jpg

    img_20180324_231602054.jpg

    img_20180324_221419051.jpg

  16. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by rakort View Post
    ...
    Any ideas on a good method to clean oil saturated wires? Brake clean and keep it out of the coils / OLs?
    Keep ALL SOLVENTS away from the panel. Clean it with soap and distilled water. Use an old toothbrush and be VERY GENTLE. I would grind up some Ivory brand 100% soap and use that, or just wet your toothbrush and run it across a bar of Ivory soap to pick up soap. You can rinse it with a spray bottle with distilled water, set the spray to a fine mist. Dry the panel for several days out in the sun before you put it under power.

    The optical guys at NOAO use "Mane and Tail" soap (originally a product for horses) to clean optics, because it's the most pure soap they can find and leaves no residue.

    Cal

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    So tonight the apron is off and on the bench.....looks like this is a minorish project in of itself.

    Most looks pretty decent(excluding the major amount of funk) with the worst thing that I can see is the pinion gear for traversing the carriage but there should be no surprise there. Whats the solution if I feel like I need to replace this gear?

    Pictures for posterity....

    img_20180325_212955243.jpg

    img_20180325_213010799.jpg

    img_20180325_214658177.jpg

    img_20180325_214709210.jpg

    img_20180325_214715159.jpg

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  19. #38
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    img_20180325_214718967.jpg

    img_20180325_214722709.jpg

    img_20180325_215146089.jpg

    img_20180325_215152638.jpg

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  21. #39
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    If you feel it necessary to replace the pinion gear, I'm certain you can obtain them through Monarch, but as others noted, they'll be pricey. Some wrinkle nose at the expense, but I won't- after all these years, they're still around, and supporting machines that are rapidly approaching a century in age, and clearly the hobby market I sit in, doesn't provide the kind of parts and service revenue to keep a company of that caliber in business, so the pricetag doesn't offend me.

    When I'm working on my machines (and realize, mine is avocation that supports vocation as needed), I look at machine wear in perspective. Slop in the pinion will cause the table to exhibit difference when changing direction. OD/ID will not be affected, so I use human intelligence to compensate for machine wear there.

    Realize, that you can make your machine incredibly tight. When you do, you'll probably find that the rack has more wear at the chuck end, than towards the tailstock. You'll find same for bed wear. To get it very snug where you work, you'll wind up with a bind at the other end. If you choose to take it down and do large scale replacement, what other aspects will you be committing yourself to? Grinding and flame-hardening the bed?

    In my machines' current environment, it serves me no purpose to attempt to approach what the 10EE was originally able... my environment is simply not thermally stable enough, or clean enough... so I've chosen, for the time being, to give it simple adjustment to take the worst of it out, then use human capacity to compensate for what's left.

    If your shop environment is better than mine, and you feel that the the wear is significant enough that the investment of parts and effort will make a difference in your ability, then a simple clean up is not your path. I'm certain that if you decided to put large volumes of money into the machine, it would respond very well to it... I believe Monarch still buys their own machines back, completely remanufactures them, and offers them for sale in manual and CNC, but I know without doubt that I would never be able see one inside MY shop. ;-)

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    Apron tear down continues. It's quite a mess on the inside....moisture contaminated oil sludge! yuck.

    Interesting findings.

    2 "extra" small thurst bearing washers found in the sump.

    and the ID of the large thrust washers weren't consistent a s expected. I have 5 with a .564 ID and 3 with a .501 ID

    img_20180327_204548491.jpg

    img_20180327_204624459.jpg

    img_20180327_205642467.jpg

    img_20180327_232730781.jpg

    img_20180327_232752373.jpg

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