New to me Monarch 10ee question

Jaymce · Feb 4, 2019

Picked up a new to me 1946 Monarch 10ee. Just in the process of cleaning it up and can not figure out what the pump assembly located under the tail stock is? Coolant pump?

I would appreciate any help. Makes a bunch of noise and new rubber mounts. If it's a coolant pump I don't do production ad would be ok with it being disconnected.

Thanks in advance for any help.
Jay

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labeeman · Feb 4, 2019

Coolant pump can be disconnected and even discarded. The pictures that you show is not the coolant pump but the motor generator unit that powers the spindle motor.

Jaymce · Feb 4, 2019

labeeman said:
Coolant pump can be disconnected and even discarded. The pictures that you show is not the coolant pump but the motor generator unit that powers the spindle motor.

Ok. Thanks Labeeman. Looks like I will have to source some rubber mounts.

Any sources for parts of this nature?

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Peter. · Feb 4, 2019

They are just 3" squares of rubber about 1/2" thick. Mine had turned gooey and disintegrated.

Jaymce · Feb 4, 2019

Peter. said:
They are just 3" squares of rubber about 1/2" thick. Mine had turned gooey and disintegrated.

I suppose that is an option. The ones that are on this machine are like automotive transmission mounts. Metal plates 1 hole on top 2 on the bottom. I looked in McMaster Carr and did not see exactly what I have but similar. Going to pull one out later and measure it.

Thanks for the suggestion Peter.

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rke[pler · Feb 4, 2019

I can't make out the shape in the image but you're talking isolation mount. Here's a link to those that McMaster stocks, maybe something could be done with some of them?

McMaster-Carr

Jaymce · Feb 4, 2019

rke[pler said:
I can't make out the shape in the image but you're talking isolation mount. Here's a link to those that McMaster stocks, maybe something could be done with some of them?

McMaster-Carr

Yes. Thanks already scoped them out. Going to pull one out tonight and measure it and see what they have.

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Peter. · Feb 4, 2019

Mine definitely had rubber blocks but it had been rebuilt as I found the rebuilder's tag in the machine base, so they might not have been original. I kinda got the feeling that they were though.

rakort · Feb 4, 2019

don't mean to be shitty here. You have an awesome lathe, but you have a long journey to fully understand what you have and how to deal with it safely. As mentioned that "thing" under the tail stock is the main dc generator and exciter (anther generator) that provides DC power to the controls and both the spindle motor armature and field(and not the coolant pump). Take it slow, read a lot, search here a lot, and ask a lot of questions. Lots of folks here will help you.

Here are pixs of some pieces I had cut on a water jet to serve as the replacements to the MG (motor generator) set rubber mounts.

I did NOT find anything acceptable for replacements from common sources (like mcmaster carr) and even other uncommon sources. I was lucky enuff to have some appropriate materiel but no way to effectively cut it so I shopped it out and had my material cut in a water jet shop.

rakort · Feb 4, 2019

Drawing

Jaymce · Feb 5, 2019

No offense taken. Thanks for the concern.

Not a complete nube to lathes. Monarch is just a bit different from the South Bend 13" that I am used to however I an definitely not a machinist.

I looked through the EE manual I found online and did not see references to this part. I had also checked with a friend who has a Monarch and he could not identity it either.

Still cleaning it up and getting it ready for an easy life.

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Steve in SoCal · Feb 5, 2019

Your lathe with the motor/generator is noisier than the other versions, some folks have removed and relocated the MG to a remote location. Isolation mounts will help with vibration but, the fan noise is perhaps more objectionable. If you have the option of moving it, that would quiet the machine best.

Steve

Jaymce · Feb 5, 2019

Steve in SoCal said:
Your lathe with the motor/generator is noisier than the other versions, some folks have removed and relocated the MG to a remote location. Isolation mounts will help with vibration but, the fan noise is perhaps more objectionable. If you have the option of moving it, that would quiet the machine best.

Steve

Thanks Steve.

Right now I am pretty sure the isolation pads are completely shot and the generator is resting on the base which is probably transmitting a bunch of noise. Also there are no covers on the machine currently which doesn't help things.

Added a pic of the mount I took out. All 4 are in this condition. Found some on McMaster carr that look like they will work with slight modifications. Mounting bolt holes are 3" rather than 2 5/8". Hoping I can slot the mounting holes and sneak them in.

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Cal Haines · Feb 5, 2019

If the manual you have doesn't show the motor/generator (MG), then you have the wrong manual.

Make sure that MG is turning the correct direction. There's a small arrow on the data plate, next to the terminal panel on the MG that shows the correct direction of rotation.

I have VERY sensitive hearing and I don't find the sound of the MG objectionable. Probably no worse than riding on an airplane. I can easily carry on a conversation when mine is running, including the noise made by the rotary phase converter and its fan.

Cal

Jaymce · Feb 5, 2019

I will check that once the mounts are in and before I set it in place. Have to put on a new belt as well.

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rakort · Feb 5, 2019

Jaymce said:
Thanks Steve.

Right now I am pretty sure the isolation pads are completely shot and the generator is resting on the base which is probably transmitting a bunch of noise. Also there are no covers on the machine currently which doesn't help things.

Added a pic of the mount I took out. All 4 are in this condition. Found some on McMaster carr that look like they will work with slight modifications. Mounting bolt holes are 3" rather than 2 5/8". Hoping I can slot the mounting holes and sneak them in.

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Those mounts/isolaters are considerably different than the ones on my earlier round dial machine. I wasn't expecting that, but we all learn every day. I'm sure it is transmitting a bunch of noise. For the near tern, definitely restore the mounts before further drastic actions are taken.

So did I miss it? Do you have the MG set under power and spinning?

Jaymce · Feb 6, 2019

rakort said:
So did I miss it? Do you have the MG set under power and spinning?

I just got the machine this weekend on Saturday. It came from a machine reseller but I could not see it under power. The seller said it came from a shop that got a bigger machine.

Monday I got it powered up but only ran it for a minute to make sure I was not going to be needing something major or returning the machine. I have not double checked to make sure the motor is running in the correct direction and will do that tomorrow.

I have been cleaning and painting it a couple hrs a day. Once the old water based coolant residue is removed things are looking really good. Should hopefully have it operational by the weekend.

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Jaymce · Feb 7, 2019

New months definitely quieted it up a bunch.

Checked and it is turning in the proper direction.

Have a new belt coming then I should be able to get it in place.

Looks like everything is low on oil. Ant recomend oils to use? I looked up in the manual but am having trouble crossing the info over. Looked like

MG 2 and MO 11,13,14 is what I AM looking for. The trade names seem to have been dropped.

Thanks

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rke[pler · Feb 7, 2019

Headstock bearings you want to use a light spindle oil, I use Mobil DTE Light. Since that's a square dial that's what goes into the headstock gear sump. For the ways I use Mobil Vactra #2, so that goes into the apron as well as the 2 oil points on the tailstock and the end for the drive and leadscrew if it has one (ELSR does, not sure of others). Mobil DTE Heavy medium into the gearbox and the reduction gearbox off the motor. You might want to pull the belt idlers and make sure of the grease there. Grease the motor and generator points.

If you haven't pulled the apron pump I'd schedule that - get the filter rebuild kit and work over the pump. When you're done just pull the cross slide dial assembly (2 bolts in the front) and run the lathe with the cross slide power engaged until you see oil from the dial weep hole. That way you know the oil pump is working and everyone up top is happy. It's not uncommon that you have to replace oil meters under the saddle and clean out the oil lines.

Sorry if some of this is repeat, I don't remember what you've done so far.

Cal Haines · Feb 7, 2019

rke[pler said:
...
If you haven't pulled the apron pump I'd schedule that - get the filter rebuild kit and work over the pump. When you're done just pull the cross slide dial assembly (2 bolts in the front) and run the lathe with the cross slide power engaged until you see oil from the dial weep hole. That way you know the oil pump is working and everyone up top is happy. It's not uncommon that you have to replace oil meters under the saddle and clean out the oil lines. ...

Russ,

You don't need to pull the cross slide dial on a square-dial. The lube pump is working any time that the feed-rod is turning. There's a cam on the shaft for feed-rod worm wheel that drives the pump. Next time you have the saddle off, have a look. (Unfortunately, we lost the photos that I took which shows the cam.)

Cal

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