Pros & Cons of starting off on a Monarch CY16 (18.5x30" 5HP) lathe
Close
Login to Your Account
Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 43
  1. #1
    Join Date
    Sep 2019
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Tennessee
    Posts
    13
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    4
    Likes (Received)
    7

    Default Pros & Cons of starting off on a Monarch CY16 (18.5x30" 5HP) lathe

    I was in the market for a typical Home Shop Machinist lathe as my first tool but came across a deal on a 1944 Monarch CY16 that I couldn't turn down. So now she's sitting in my garage on skids.

    I have no specific intended use planned out, I'm just a mechanical/controls/robotics/systems engineer that likes to get my hands greasy.

    Other than the space it takes up and electrical power, and assuming the tool is generally in decent shape, are there any pitfalls for owning/operating this lathe vs. a newer, smaller lathe?

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    Houston, TX USA
    Posts
    29,474
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Its a real lathe that weighs a little less than 5000 lbs. It is one of the GREAT machines made by Monarch. It even has lead screw reverse on the apron. Probably won't be as "fast" as a el cheapo modern thing, so you just get to make do with the older ways

    What else is there to say?

    I guess a little safety smarts will be in order - it has at least 5 HP (and later 7 1/2 HP) and can take off your arm in an eyeblink

    You got POWER for this thing? It will need three phase of course

    Sort of related pub:

    http://vintagemachinery.org/pubs/2103/17622.pdf

    If you ARE new to all this - you need to seriously digest ALL the conceptual content in a pub like this

    http://vintagemachinery.org/pubs/1617/5795.pdf

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Utah
    Posts
    897
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    1873
    Likes (Received)
    352

    Default

    Lead screw reverse lever is absolute awesomeness.

  4. Likes Derek Smalls, moonlight machine liked this post
  5. #4
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Australia (Hobart)
    Posts
    3,538
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    561
    Likes (Received)
    2676

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by TheOldCar View Post
    Lead screw reverse lever is absolute awesomeness.
    Yes - it almost makes up for the pathetically small spindle bore.

    I have 2 complaints about my Monarch CY lathe - the small spindle bore and the low top speed (490 rpm on mine).

    I can fix the slow top speed, the spindle bore, not so much.

    But they're really great lathes and mine has the taper attachment that masses more than a toy South Bend lathe all by itself......

    PDW

  6. #5
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    BFE Nevada/San Marcos Tx
    Posts
    1,040
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    908
    Likes (Received)
    541

    Default

    You need to start with watching some "lathe accident" videos on youtube, that should give you some respect for the machine. Way back in school my choice was the little SB with slipping belts, or the huge old WWII surplus Monarch, I choose the Monarch, did something stupid one day, still gives me the willies thinking about it today, just got hurt a little bit, could have been so much worse. Think about every move you make before doing it, and have some fun.

  7. Likes TheOldCar, Ray Behner liked this post
  8. #6
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Camarillo Ca
    Posts
    472
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    24
    Likes (Received)
    112

    Default

    When I went to school, The instructor started us out on giant WW 2 lathes. Most of us had never seen a lathe.

  9. Likes dalmatiangirl61 liked this post
  10. #7
    Join Date
    Sep 2019
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Tennessee
    Posts
    13
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    4
    Likes (Received)
    7

    Default

    Thanks for the suggestion. I've worked in manufacturing for 20 years and have been around a couple of amputations and a fatality due to rotating equipment. But watching some of those videos still gave me a new respect for lathe work.

  11. Likes dalmatiangirl61, TheOldCar liked this post
  12. #8
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Northwest Indiana
    Posts
    3,920
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    631
    Likes (Received)
    720

    Default

    Great first machine. And yes this is not a toy, treat it with respect and you'll be fine. I ran one of these along with plenty of others for many many years. One of my favorite small machines - although I fully agree with the small spindle bore gripe - however, back in the day when this machine was made that wasn't any different than many other machines on offer. Monarch made some fantastic machines. Unlike Cincinnati, who made some awful ones... in one shop I worked in we had a 5" Cincinnati floor traveling hbm that everyone hated. I still remember the graffiti on that machine these 25 years later - "If Cincinnati made an airplane, would you fly in it?" To be fair, they also made some good ones.

    I'm sure you're aware of all the safety issues with these machines if you've been around them, just remember it's a different class of machine than your high school shop and what might have caused a little damage with those machines now has the potential to kill. (Do NOT leave the chuck wrench in the chuck, etc.) Anything you think "maybe I can get away with it just this once" is also a red flag. Like for instance polishing with emery wrapped around a shaft past 180° etc. Don't.

    Newer machines will have that larger spindle bore and higher RPM, but most of them will be worn out hunks of junk while the Monarch is still plugging along producing high quality parts and finishes.

    This machine has the potential to work just about as fast in terms of MRR as a newer machine but you'll have to approach it in a different fashion. Newer machines are geared more toward very high speed and lower DOC and feed. These CYs will do better at lower speed but with larger DOC and feed. Change your grade of tungsten carbide accordingly. My "standard" "heavy" roughing cut on these was about ⅛" - 3/16" DOC per side and .018" feed per rev at 250-280 SFM. In 4140 Q&T. The Monarch would rip off steel at that pace all day long if necessary.

  13. Likes Hopefuldave, TheOldCar, *D'B=6bk liked this post
  14. #9
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Texas
    Posts
    2,039
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    1383
    Likes (Received)
    876

    Default

    Not familiar with that specific model, but the only disadvantage I can see to starting with a first class machine is that on the small tool-room lathes like South Bend, Logan, etc. that most people start with, you don't have all the extra options and capabilities to "spoil yourself" with, so you get a healthy dose of understanding the basics of how tool geometry, speeds and feeds all work together to make a cut. You have no choice but to get things right to avoid chatter and such. On a much nicer more rigid machine, The added mass and smooth operation might soften the blow when your parameters are a little off.

    Honestly though, it's kind of a first world problem.... Next you'll be telling us how your employer keeps giving you 3 foot "drops" of tool steel and your wife wants you to set up the lathe in your living room....

  15. Likes TheOldCar, old_dave, *D'B=6bk, Kjelle, Mcgyver liked this post
  16. #10
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    Sunny South West Florida, USA
    Posts
    2,675
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    10274
    Likes (Received)
    3106

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by dalmatiangirl61 View Post
    You need to start with watching some "lathe accident" videos on youtube, that should give you some respect for the machine. Way back in school my choice was the little SB with slipping belts, or the huge old WWII surplus Monarch, I choose the Monarch, did something stupid one day, still gives me the willies thinking about it today, just got hurt a little bit, could have been so much worse. Think about every move you make before doing it, and have some fun.

    You can't leave us hanging like that!

    What'd you do?!?!

  17. #11
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Location
    Central Mother Lode, California
    Posts
    802
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    954
    Likes (Received)
    99

    Default

    Pictures! We want pictures! We want lots and lots of pictures!

    David

  18. #12
    Join Date
    Sep 2019
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Tennessee
    Posts
    13
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    4
    Likes (Received)
    7

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by old_dave View Post
    Pictures! We want pictures! We want lots and lots of pictures!

    David
    Pictures as requested:
    Monarch Photo Album



  19. Likes old_dave, TeachMePlease, Kjelle, TheOldCar liked this post
  20. #13
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    Houston, TX USA
    Posts
    29,474
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Looks like even the dog approves!

    Looks like a good one - that is the ball bearing taper attachment on the back

  21. Likes Limy Sami liked this post
  22. #14
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Norfolk, UK
    Posts
    18,586
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    14127
    Likes (Received)
    14092

    Default

    From what we can see IMO that's a fair looking tool

    Tip ;- Cutting the number of belts to 1 or maybe 2, and setting them to run slack, …….may give you a little bit of a ''safety net'' in the event of you doing something silly etc etc etc, while learning to drive the beast.

    P.S. Nice dog ...…(no need for me to warn you about swarf (chips) and dogs feet not mixing - is there

  23. Likes *D'B=6bk, 4GSR, Ray Behner liked this post
  24. #15
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    BFE Nevada/San Marcos Tx
    Posts
    1,040
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    908
    Likes (Received)
    541

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by TeachMePlease View Post
    You can't leave us hanging like that!

    What'd you do?!?!
    Set machine for highest speed to polish a shaft, placed one hand on chuck as I reached over and hit the start switch, it slammed my hand into ways, then started grabbing skin on backside of my hand to suck it thru the 2" gap between chuck and ways.

  25. #16
    Join Date
    Sep 2019
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Tennessee
    Posts
    13
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    4
    Likes (Received)
    7

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Limy Sami View Post
    From what we can see IMO that's a fair looking tool

    Tip ;- Cutting the number of belts to 1 or maybe 2, and setting them to run slack, …….may give you a little bit of a ''safety net'' in the event of you doing something silly etc etc etc, while learning to drive the beast.

    P.S. Nice dog ...…(no need for me to warn you about swarf (chips) and dogs feet not mixing - is there
    Thanks for the advice. You likely saved both me and the dog a good deal of discomfort.

  26. #17
    Join Date
    Sep 2019
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Tennessee
    Posts
    13
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    4
    Likes (Received)
    7

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by eKretz View Post
    Great first machine....

    This machine has the potential to work just about as fast in terms of MRR as a newer machine but you'll have to approach it in a different fashion. Newer machines are geared more toward very high speed and lower DOC and feed. These CYs will do better at lower speed but with larger DOC and feed. Change your grade of tungsten carbide accordingly. My "standard" "heavy" roughing cut on these was about ⅛" - 3/16" DOC per side and .018" feed per rev at 250-280 SFM. In 4140 Q&T. The Monarch would rip off steel at that pace all day long if necessary.
    Not having a way to power the 5HP 3-phase motor yet, and wishing to preserve my current marital/financial status, I was thinking of swapping the 5HP with a cheap 3HP "farm-duty" motor running through a reduction belt-drive just so I could play around and make a few chips until I do get a means of powering the lathe properly. Any thoughts on this? I realize I might be quite limited on what I could do, but I figure with a gentle hand on the clutch and minding my feeds and speeds I could at least play around for a bit. Or is this just pissing on my leg to stay warm?

  27. #18
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Victoria, Texas, USA
    Posts
    3,919
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    2013
    Likes (Received)
    952

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by dalmatiangirl61 View Post
    Set machine for highest speed to polish a shaft, placed one hand on chuck as I reached over and hit the start switch, it slammed my hand into ways, then started grabbing skin on backside of my hand to suck it thru the 2" gap between chuck and ways.
    Ouch!!

    I have one of those injuries on my right hand while I was holding the chuck key and my left hand accidentally flipped the drum switch on dad's 9" SBL lathe at ten years old. He had just converted the pulleys to run on a poly groove belt or the old leather belt would have just slipped off. The 1/4 HP just sat there clicking on and off until dad reached over and turned the drum switch off. One lesson well learned and still sets with me 53 years later. Establish a place holder for your chuck key and and use it! I was lucky and saved by the 1/4 HP motor.

    Ken

  28. #19
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    California, Central Coast
    Posts
    3,323
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    2153
    Likes (Received)
    1293

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by *D'B=6bk View Post
    Not having a way to power the 5HP 3-phase motor yet, and wishing to preserve my current marital/financial status, I was thinking of swapping the 5HP with a cheap 3HP "farm-duty" motor running through a reduction belt-drive just so I could play around and make a few chips until I do get a means of powering the lathe properly. Any thoughts on this? I realize I might be quite limited on what I could do, but I figure with a gentle hand on the clutch and minding my feeds and speeds I could at least play around for a bit. Or is this just pissing on my leg to stay warm?
    I would not swap motors, or slow it down any more than it already is. An old 7.5 or 10 hp motor will make a good idle motor for a RPC, you can buy a control box for under $500 or do rope start and some balance capacitors for close to free. Much info on differnt types of RPC;s on here. You could probably run the RPC and the lathe off your dryer outlet. If is a 50 amp no problems at all, 30 amp maybe, but I would try it.
    Looks like a great lathe, I have one of its cousins, 16cw.

  29. Likes timvercoe liked this post
  30. #20
    Join Date
    Sep 2019
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Tennessee
    Posts
    13
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    4
    Likes (Received)
    7

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Rob F. View Post
    I would not swap motors, or slow it down any more than it already is. An old 7.5 or 10 hp motor will make a good idle motor for a RPC, you can buy a control box for under $500 or do rope start and some balance capacitors for close to free. Much info on differnt types of RPC;s on here. You could probably run the RPC and the lathe off your dryer outlet. If is a 50 amp no problems at all, 30 amp maybe, but I would try it.
    Looks like a great lathe, I have one of its cousins, 16cw.
    I have a 60A 220V welding outlet near the machine fortunately. I'll definitely look into the DIY RPC option.

  31. Likes Hopefuldave liked this post

Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •