Restoration of Monarch 10EE Serial#26080 Delivered on 11/2/1944 to Buick
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    Default Restoration of Monarch 10EE Serial#26080 Delivered on 11/2/1944 to Buick

    I have posted a few odd comments about my Monarch 10EE, serial #26080, with original invoice and manual. This lathe was bought by Buick, and I bought it from the dealer that took it from the decommissioned plant.

    It is in relatively good condition from a basic visual assessment. Other than taking some of the exterior doors off to disassemble and paint, I haven't worked on this machine since I took delivery in April. Yes, life gets in the way, and I only live in FL from Sept to May so I couldn't work on it over the summer anyway. I started to dive in today. I need to take down the weight of the machine as it is still sitting inside the bottom part of the delivery crate it came in. (I leveled it as best I could and its sitting pretty level still) I ordered some machine skates so I can keep it on the skates until I have the base fully restored and in its final resting place.

    I took off the tailstock and started to take the compound and cross slide off. I ran into a few issues, one of which I will explain now and hopefully get some friendly advice.

    I removed the end cap to the lever that I believe operates to engage the electronic leadscrew? The assembly has a swirl threaded gear on the end. See the pictures below.

    monarch-10ee-metal-lathe_withlever_li.jpg

    I am assuming the lever (arrow pointing to it) operates the electronic leadscrew? Someone please enlighten me. The housing (circled) and also shown below has a gear with a swirled threading in it. I cannot get that gear off despite removing the dog point screw that appears to hold it in.

    twist-thread-leadscrew.jpg

    leadscrew-assembly.jpg

    Can someone please let me know if
    A. This gear actually doesn't come off or
    B. If it does, how best to remove it. I tried heat, gear pullers (various sizes and with a hammer drill), PB Blaster et al and some minor (lol) tapping with a block of wood and hammer.

    (I'm going to try my hydraulic press next, if you all say it comes off)

    I will try to post each day or so to keep you all up with the restoration. I will post a picture of the machine on my next post as I did not take a picture of it for some reason.

    Ahh.. One other thing. How does the chuck come off? I removed the three screws, and unlocked the three 5/16" nuts. Im not familiar with how to remove it after those steps.

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    Your lathe is "round-dial" 10EE and is equipped with the "electric leadscrew reverse" (ELSR) option. ELSR is really a misnomer: all the mechanism does is stop the spindle motor when the saddle bumps into either of the two movable stops on the operating rod which passes through the saddle. It would typically be used for threading and once the spindle stops, the operator would withdraw the tool and move the control handle to cause the spindle to reverse and the carriage move right until the other stop is encountered. This is done with the half-nuts closed. A few ELSR equipped round-dials had a box mounted on the base with a knob that controlled the speed of the spindle when reversed, so that the carriage could be rapidly moved back to the right.

    To date, I don't think one has shown up that is complete and has both stops in place. My assumption is that the system wasn't very useful. The lever that you point to is used by the operator to turn the spindle on/off and doubles as the right-side movable stop. The funny spiral worm gear that you mentioned moves the operating rod sideways when you raise or lower the lever. The operating rod in turn operates micro-switches in the casting on the front of the headstock that control the coil circuit for the forward/reverse contactors. The ELSR part just moves the rod sideways when either stop is encountered, turning off the spindle (as mentioned). Parts picture E-14 in your manual shows all the parts of the ELSR system.

    There should be no reason for you to remove the worm from the operating rod (which is called the Leadscrew Reverse Control Shaft part E14-56). I imagine that it's pinned to the shaft with a tapered pin and I wouldn't mess with it unless there's a reason. You should be able to uncouple the rod from the coupling (part E14-55) and pull it out of the saddle to the right.

    If you have the wiring diagram for the lathe I would very much like to get a photocopy.

    Cal

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    I do have the original diagram. I will post it tomorrow

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    I sent you an e-mail.

    Cal

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    Here is a picture of the machine with the headstock end covers removed.

    10ee_ser26080_somecoversremoved.jpg

    Here are the motors. Everything looks original so I'm assuming I have the Motor/Generator setup.
    The wiring panel under the headstock looks ok but it is certainly the original wiring. Man that big motor looks like its going to be cumbersome to get out.

    tailendmotor.jpg

    Big motor
    maindrivemotor.jpg

    I will post the wiring diagram later but in the meantime here is the original delivery spec sheet.

    https://batlgroupimages.blob.core.wi...iverySpecs.pdf

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    Default Wiring diagram

    Here is a pdf of the original wiring diagram from the factory.

    If you want it larger, for $4 you can email this to Fedex office and get it printed on 24"x36" paper. It comes out beautifully.

    https://batlgroupimages.blob.core.wi...ingDiagram.pdf

    P.S. I had 10 printed, so a one off printing might be slightly more than $4. (-:

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    HELP!

    I took apart the apron and saddle and cross-slide. I got the latter two off with no issues. I thought the apron would just feed to the end and slide off. NOPE. It gets to the end but will not come off. What am I missing? I have it propped up now so it wont bend the rods but I want to get it off as soon as possible!

    stuckapron.jpg

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    Here is an image of the underside of the saddle. Looky there, I'll assume that is turcite. It looks relatively new. Consensus on what to do with that? Leave it, replace it another option?

    10ee_undersaddle.jpg

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    Quote Originally Posted by dinotom View Post
    HELP!

    I took apart the apron and saddle and cross-slide. I got the latter two off with no issues. I thought the apron would just feed to the end and slide off. NOPE. It gets to the end but will not come off. What am I missing? I have it propped up now so it wont bend the rods but I want to get it off as soon as possible!

    stuckapron.jpg
    You have to pull the leadscrew and ALL the rods first.

    "All" including one of the ELSR variants where such exist, surfacing feed shaft and leadscrew otherwise the minimum.

    After which, the apron is lowered, right about the center of its long-axis travel.

    Where there is SPACE under it - the "chip pan" / coolant sump - to manipulate the grillage/blocking and such. No such space, extreme "TS-ward" position.

    Don't fight that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dinotom View Post
    Here is an image of the underside of the saddle. Looky there, I'll assume that is turcite. It looks relatively new. Consensus on what to do with that? Leave it, replace it another option?

    10ee_undersaddle.jpg
    Cannot tell from a foto how well it was done, OTHERWISE, but... that short patch on the bridge? lower/center, left of the oil lines?

    Should not even BE there. That area is not meant to touch anything at all.

    it only does so when the wear has exceeded design limits on the underside of the saddle as bear on the front Vee and main flat, rearmost. The hardened bed outlasts the softer saddle on wear five, seven, or more times to one.

    Should be ten-thou or better clearance in that zone when new, ELSE Vee and flat have been built back up to proper height, "daylighting" it once again.

    Trying to provide for improved resistance to wear by scraping them into some sort of "sync" is counterproductive. All it can accomplish is to weaken the "authority" of a properly LOADED front Vee to control alignment as well as carry the stresses of cutting.

    Get that short strip TF OFF, then MEASURE and see what you have left.

    "Nothing further" could be a lovely surprise, so it is well worth the modest extra effort.

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    Quote Originally Posted by thermite View Post
    You have to pull the leadscrew and ALL the rods first.
    I got the feed rod off. The leadscrew, well that's another story. The pin sticks out at least an 1/8" on either side and one side is clearly smaller than the other. I've tried the usual stuff, pb blaster, oil, heat but I cant get it to budge and I've mushroomed the top a little to the point I had to file it to get it back to size. I may try a small gear puller to push it out (just not sure if the three arms can grab the leadscrew coupler). Any other suggestions?

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    Use a lathe,(hopefully you have another one) to make a large aluminum/brass ring that fits precisely around the diameter where the pin is, drill and tap for a pusher bolt, and then cut in half to make a split ring that can be secured around the leadscrew. I have successfully pushed out stuck taper pins with homemade pushers like this. For really tight ones I have drilled out the end of the pusher bolt to accept a 3 mm dowel pin, and then ground mostly flush the smaller end of the taper pin and drilled into the taper pin by hand so that the dowel pin is pushing on the taper pin inside of the taper hole so it can't bell mouth the taper pin.
    Last edited by bll230; 12-13-2019 at 01:23 PM. Reason: Said large end obviously meant small end

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    Quote Originally Posted by dinotom View Post
    I got the feed rod off. The leadscrew, well that's another story. The pin sticks out at least an 1/8" on either side and one side is clearly smaller than the other. I've tried the usual stuff, pb blaster, oil, heat but I cant get it to budge and I've mushroomed the top a little to the point I had to file it to get it back to size. I may try a small gear puller to push it out (just not sure if the three arms can grab the leadscrew coupler). Any other suggestions?
    Never saw the point when they don't cooperate "early-on". Try the usual persuasion-fu, but don't make a long-term career out of it.

    Drill 'em out and move-on. You do know how to clean-up ream and fit new ones? Not hard to learn, if not.

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    On a small scale, when we hit the end of a shaft, pin, whatever, there is a swelling of the first portion of that pin or shaft that wedges it tighter in it's bore.
    The above described method of drilling out the end, inserting a smaller than full diameter hard dowel, and applying the impact forces further down in the pin is usually very effective.
    The best is to pull the pin/bolt/shaft from the other end, but that process is sometimes impossible. or can take hours of work/engineering/fabricating.

    I acquired a selection of tapered pins and tapered pin reamers.. The antique cars I own and restore use tapered pins to hold many sleeves to shafts. When I find an original one to take apart it's easy. but if it has been 'worked on' by someone between new and now, often it is a mess.

    A good set of drift pin drivers and use of a drilled smaller than full diameter driving hole will almost always get them out.

    DualValve

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    Quote Originally Posted by thermite View Post
    Never saw the point when they don't cooperate "early-on". Try the usual persuasion-fu, but don't make a long-term career out of it.

    Drill 'em out and move-on. You do know how to clean-up ream and fit new ones? Not hard to learn, if not.
    I did have to drill out the pin after several other different methods did not work to remove it.

    Note: I am not a machinist, I am a machine restorer; as a hobby. Yes, I have reamed holes for regular pins, but never for a tapered pin.

    I assume there are special reamers for tapered pins. Shouldn't be too hard to do but any advice will be taken with the highest regard. I had to drill out the pin with a 1/4" bit. (started much smaller but ended up at 1/4" to get the whole pin out)

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    Quote Originally Posted by dinotom View Post
    I did have to drill out the pin after several other different methods did not work to remove it.

    Note: I am not a machinist, I am a machine restorer; as a hobby. Yes, I have reamed holes for regular pins, but never for a tapered pin.

    I assume there are special reamers for tapered pins.
    Shouldn't be too hard to do but any advice will be taken with the highest regard. I had to drill out the pin with a 1/4" bit. (started much smaller but ended up at 1/4" to get the whole pin out)
    Might be a tad "Off Topic" but... this is one of the things as can be astonishing when a person says "I am not a machinist".. or - far worse, usually : "I assume."

    /frustration-ON

    NO NEED to "assume".

    "Taper pins" began with wood. Or maybe bone. Or even stone. No shortage of examples, and from LONG before humankind was working metals.

    They STILL find use in wood. As do wedges. The applications are all around us, and are not any sort of "complicated" as to concept.

    First ones I ever dealt with in steel were on farm equipment and long before I was old enough to shave or had ever run a "machine tool" of any kind. We didn't yet even have ELECTRICITY where our two farms adjoined.

    So, yes, of course reamers for them exist. And surely a go ogle wudda found the reamers AND boxes of stock pins, AND size charts.

    Time was, a person who had no internet, no dead-tree books - might not even have been able to read nor write, could have asked a clerk in an "Ironmongery" or hardware store.

    Online sources better and cheaper as they are, I haven't LOOKED but would not be surprised that "Big Box" have taper pins in those metal drawer cabinets of special fasteners most of them have near the "common" fasteners aisle.

    IOW - I don't see why taper pins nor taper reamers are any sort of "mystery" for even any significant part of a single day, if not ten minutes or less, internet searches as fast as they can be.

    "Not a machnist. I am..." Think about that.

    Humans ain't built to singular, narrow-as-hell, standards as rigidly single-purpose as .... well... "taper pins"... as are fit for only a very limited range of utility.

    We are not just tool making and tool using "animals". We are learning and growing and understanding creatures at core.

    HAVE to be .. or we'd starve soon as we were off "first-teat".



    Don't make excuses about lack of knowledge off some sort of "caste" box-tick as if yah aren't ALLOWED to look sumthin' up without a license.

    Make the effort to "NOW I get it" and before yah deal with a new challenge rather than after - ELSE a minor problem can easily become a greater one.

    Not as if it cost all that much to look around, is it?

    Even the mighty Quinn the Eskimo - or "PM, doing what PM does best" works better, faster, and cheaper if a body does a bit of homework, yah.

    YouTube

    /frustration-OFF

    B.C Forbes:
    With all thy getting, get thee understanding.

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    My apologies for a poorly worded post. I can and do fix everything myself, restore machines, rewire motors, build cabinets etc etc. Yes, I know there are tapered reamers and yes, I can and have watched, some videos and read articles on how to do so. What I intended to convey was to ask for advice from those who are more knowledgeable than I on this topic, here on this forum, as to the PROPER way to approach doing this.

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    Default Video of the ways on the 10EE

    Attached is a video of the ways after a light cleaning with a rag. They appear to be in okay condition. I would appreciate an opinion from a more experienced eye.

    I am in South FL, should I want to go the regrinding route, does anyone know of a shop around that location to get this done?

    https://batlgroupimages.blob.core.wi..._WaysVideo.mov

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    Did you get the schematic I sent? Do you know of any detailed assembly drawings for the 10EE, for the apron or gearbox, for example. When I dis-assemble it, other than recording the process, I would still like a factory diagram on how to re-assemble rather than rely on the fact that it is currently assembled correctly.

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    It's hard to tell much from photos or a video. Two tests will tell you a lot about the condition of the ways:
    • Check the clearance between the tailstock flat way and the saddle using a feeler gage. A new machine has about 0.010" clearance. But since your machine has been rebuilt, this might not be the best indication of condition.
    • Attach and indicator to the saddle and indicate the machined surfaces on the front and back, underneath the ways, where the hold down bearings run. You should be able to find a place with no wear. If the ways are nice and flat the indicator won't move from end to end.

    Cal


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