Restoration of Monarch 10EE Serial#26080 Delivered on 11/2/1944 to Buick - Page 2
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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cal Haines View Post
    It's hard to tell much from photos or a video.
    Hopefully the same won't be true here. Lol

    Below, is a link to a video of the headstock gears. They look like they are in good shape to me, just looking for a second opinion from one with a more experienced eye than me before I start taking it apart.

    https://batlgroupimages.blob.core.wi...stockGears.mov

  2. #22
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    Default Stop rod worm gear housing

    I've been slowly taking the lathe apart, so I can send the ways bed up to have the ways ground.

    Here is a part that I didn't notice initially; that clearly was brazed, but with no effort to finish the job. (I cleaned it up with the wire wheel and a grinder with a 220 soft wheel on it)

    10ee_wormgearcollar_brazednotfinished.jpg10ee_wormgearcollar_brazednotfinished2.jpg10ee_wormgearcollar_brazed_finished.jpg10ee_wormgearcollar_brazed_finished2.jpg

  3. #23
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    Default Motor vented door covered pins

    Upon cleaning, stripping and priming the front access doors, I noticed there were bondo'd pins, not where the current knobs sit. The were bondo'd pins in the decorative trim pieces as well.

    Not concerning, just curious if anyone knows why? Were there other types of access doors that I haven't seen in any of the complete machine images?

    10ee_frontaccessdoor_extraholes.jpg
    10ee_frontaccessdoor_extraholes2.jpg
    10ee_frontaccessdoortrimpieces_extraholes.jpg
    10ee_frontaccessdoortrimpieces_extraholes2.jpg

  4. #24
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    I suspect that the pin locations were not drilled at the factory with a jig, they were drilled for each lathe as it was assembled..

    This suspicion of mine is based on the hand drilling of many if not most of the tapered pins used to hold handles and knobs in place..

    So the cover might be a replacement, due to the original being lost or broken and replaced.. The replacement's pins did not match the lathe's holes so the cover's pins were relocated..

    Seems like a reasonable chain of events ??

    DualValve

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  6. #25
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    Default Starting up on restoration after holidays

    I am back on the project, having done little to nothing during the holidays.

    I finally got the machine off the plywood crate platform it was delivered on. Was quite the task using two automotive jacks and an engine hoist. I had to lift in a bunch of places, 3-4 times to cut away the whole platform and get it on skates.

    monarch_10ee_image_onskates.jpg

    Now I can finally access the rear door, and what did I find?
    I assume that the oil pump motor was what was in there? I'm not sure, I couldn't find much documentation on it, and don't see it on my wiring diagram.

    monarch_10ee_image_backaccessdoor.jpg

    I've attached pictures of my motor and exciter/generator and both electrical panels. I'm relatively certain these are the original components, running on three phase power. Any other opinions please? Additionally, how does one determine the voltage this is set up for? I have the wiring schematic but see no reference to the voltage.
    monarch_10ee_image_exciter.jpgmonarch_10ee_image_generator.jpgmonarch_10ee_image_frontaccessdoor.jpg

    I do not have three phase (garage shop) and no converter...yet. Will this unit suffice for this lathe? I want to see if it actually powers up, as was claimed by the seller prior to him shipping it to me. (He had no 3 phase in his storage area so could not send me video of it running, but I got it so cheap ($2300, plus an extra 165 for the tailgate delivery)that I took a shot anyway since I was going to completely restore it)

    10HP AMP by American Rotary, Mobile Series Phase Converter Tier 1: Amazon.com: Industrial & Scientific
    Last edited by dinotom; 01-13-2020 at 05:31 PM.

  7. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by dinotom View Post
    Now I can finally access the rear door, and what did I find?
    I assume that the oil pump motor was what was in there? I'm not sure, I couldn't find much documentation on it, and don't see it on my wiring diagram.
    Coolant pump area, seems to be disconnected and gone

    I've attached pictures of my motor and exciter/generator and both electrical panels. I'm relatively certain these are the original components, running on three phase power. Any other opinions please? Additionally, how does one determine the voltage this is set up for? I have the wiring schematic but see no reference to the voltage.
    Check the coil on the contactor on the back of the lathe (box behind the headstock, has a hole for the overload reset). Normally the coil will have the voltage on it, might have to run a light sideways to get contrast.

    I do not have three phase (garage shop) and no converter...yet. Will this unit suffice for this lathe? I want to see if it actually powers up, as was claimed by the seller prior to him shipping it to me. (He had no 3 phase in his storage area so could not send me video of it running, but I got it so cheap ($2300, plus an extra 165 for the tailgate delivery)that I took a shot anyway since I was going to completely restore it)
    More than enough. It is possible to make some minor modifications to the motor end to make it self starting on single phase and avoid having an external 3 phase generation system. But getting an external rotary phase converter is the fastest way to get going and has the added benefit of providing for other motors.

  8. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by rke[pler View Post

    More than enough. It is possible to make some minor modifications to the motor end to make it self starting on single phase and avoid having an external 3 phase generation system. But getting an external rotary phase converter is the fastest way to get going and has the added benefit of providing for other motors.
    Talked with my electrician, he said to go with digital phase converter. They just installed 4 in a large estates shop and have a 10HP one leftover that I can buy for (what I deem expensive) but a big discount from retail price.

    Product Builder & Quoting | Phase Technologies

    The unit is a PT010 with On/Off switch and DIN surge protection. Any thoughts on this? I want to try to run the lathe in its original configuration, since that is how it was designed.

  9. #28
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    Default Drive Motor original condition

    Here is a glimpse of the drive motor, it looks to be in pretty good shape, except for the 70 years of filth. Any other opinions, or things I missed are most welcome.

    https://batlgroupimages.blob.core.wi...lCondition.mov

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    Default Oil pan under ways

    Here is the oil reservoir under the ways. I see the big drain hole but crawling around underneath, I cant see where that leads to. I assume it may be to one of the two capped 1/4" pipes in the headstock? Anyway, it won't drain anymore as its below the hole opening level. Is there a supplemental drain I can't see through the crud? Is the only way to remove this oil pumping it out or soaking it up?

    monarch_10ee_image_oilsump.jpg

  11. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by rke[pler View Post

    Check the coil on the contactor on the back of the lathe (box behind the headstock, has a hole for the overload reset). Normally the coil will have the voltage on it, might have to run a light sideways to get contrast.
    I searched around for a "box" there is just a conduit pipe coming from behind the reset button on the back of the lathe. I looked around pretty good in there with a flashlight but couldn't find any voltage references.

  12. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by dinotom View Post
    ...

    I've attached pictures of my motor and exciter/generator and both electrical panels. I'm relatively certain these are the original components, running on three phase power. Any other opinions please? Additionally, how does one determine the voltage this is set up for? I have the wiring schematic but see no reference to the voltage.
    monarch_10ee_image_exciter.jpgmonarch_10ee_image_generator.jpg
    The first photo shows the DC exciter (belt-driven, on the top) and the DC generator (on the bottom). The second photo is not the generator, it's the DC spindle drive motor. The back of the DC control panel is visible in the second photo. We need to see a photo of the insides of the panel.

    Quote Originally Posted by dinotom View Post
    ...
    monarch_10ee_image_frontaccessdoor.jpg
    This photo is of the terminal panel on the motor/generator (MG). The AC section of the MG is directly behind this panel and shares it's shaft with the DC generator.

    Based on the connections seen in this photo, it appears that the AC drive motor is wired for 220 operation. This link will help you check the other items on the machine to make sure that it's ready to run from 220:

    10EE MG 440 to 220 Conversion Checklist

    The main AC contactor is behind a cast iron cover on the back of the headstock (actually behind the quick-change gearbox), where you mention seeing the reset button in a later post.

    Quote Originally Posted by dinotom View Post
    ...
    I do not have three phase (garage shop) and no converter...yet. Will this unit suffice for this lathe? ...

    10HP AMP by American Rotary, Mobile Series Phase Converter Tier 1: Amazon.com: Industrial & Scientific
    That is way more money than you need to run a 10EE from single phase. A 7.5HP rotary phase converter (RPC) is all you need. Your best bet is to buy an RPC control panel online and get a used 7.5HP, 3-phase motor locally to act as the RPC's "idler motor". You should be able to get a used, working 7.5HP 3-phase motor for under $100. I've suggested WNY RPC panels to a number people over the years and gotten consistently good feedback (I have no association with them). Here's a link to one of their panels:
    7.5Hp Rotary phase converter control panel 230vac

    The Phase-Perfect solid state phase converter that your electrician suggested is likewise way more money than you need to spend. It is a very good product; the Cadillac of phase conveters and priced accordingly. You aren't dealing with a million dollar CNC machine here. A simple RPC is all you need.

    Cal

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  14. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cal Haines View Post
    The first photo shows the DC exciter (belt-driven, on the top) and the DC generator (on the bottom). The second photo is not the generator, it's the DC spindle drive motor. The back of the DC control panel is visible in the second photo. We need to see a photo of the insides of the panel.

    Cal
    Thanks for the response Cal. I know the drive motor vs the exciter/generator combo, the pictures just posted that way even though I added them in the order I wanted. I have attached a picture of the inside of the panel. I agree it looks like normal 220 but I want to be sure. I will go through the conversion checklist to be certain.

    I know the digital phase converter is expensive, but I'm getting it for quite a good discount (not much more than some RPC's of equal power) and I can run my 3 phase grinder from it as well and its FAR quieter operationally than an RPC, which is important to me. It also provides much cleaner power, stable power; according to my electrician.

    monarch_10ee_image_dcmotorelectricalboxfrontview.jpg
    monarch_10ee_image_dcmotorelectricalboxrearview.jpg

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    Quote Originally Posted by dinotom View Post
    I searched around for a "box" there is just a conduit pipe coming from behind the reset button on the back of the lathe. I looked around pretty good in there with a flashlight but couldn't find any voltage references.
    Here's a picture of my 10EE before I worked on it:



    The main contactor should be behind the cover with the reset button and pump switch, above the disconnect. You can see the cover screws at the top of the cast aluminum cover.




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    I'm running my 10ee from a Phoenix Converters RPC, a 5hp one. I can have the 10ee running and a friend using my Gorton Mill or the 17" LeBlond Lathe at the same time.. or the 2 hp 3ph buffer, which is ofter using all it's horsepower.
    I also run a 220v to 440v 3ph transformer from the RPC to create 440v 3phase to run a Hardinge lathe.
    Your 10ee has a 3HP 3phase motor running the DC generator and exciter. Even providing for a generous margin, a 5hp or 7.5hp RPC is more than adequate.
    Noise? Just build an insulate box for the Motor, with cooling air vents facing away from the room, You will hardly hear it.
    A phase perfect hums or buzzes a bit too, certainly NOT silent. A friend has one, and for all it's hype, its not that quiet.

    A 5ph RPC with the inverter/motor and shipping can be had for around $500, and certainly less if you do as Cal suggested and buy a 3ph motor locally to go with a pre-made control box.
    For me, unless that phase perfect can be installed for no more that $1000-$1200, I'd go with a RPC.
    Unless you see having 2-4 other men in you shop working on other 3phase machines, an overly large converter is a waste of funds.

    DualValve

  17. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by rke[pler View Post
    Here's a picture of my 10EE before I worked on it:

    The main contactor should be behind the cover with the reset button and pump switch, above the disconnect. You can see the cover screws at the top of the cast aluminum cover.
    I removed the cover (mine is definitely cast iron, and not cast aluminum). See the attached picture.
    No mention of voltage anywhere inside there, but it looks like its 220. When my electrician comes by I'll have him look at it to verify.
    monarch_10ee_image_resetbuttoncovercontactorpanel.jpg

    And I found this tag inside the compartment as well
    monarch_10ee_image_resetbuttoncovertaginside.jpg

  18. #36
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    In the circle:

    monarch_10ee_pc.jpg

  19. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by dinotom View Post
    I removed the cover (mine is definitely cast iron, and not cast aluminum). See the attached picture.
    No mention of voltage anywhere inside there, but it looks like its 220. ...
    My conversion checklist walks you through this. (I was missing a photo, but it's back now.) You need to check the overload heaters as well as the coil voltage; don't assume that because one is correct, that everything is right.

    Cal

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    Wow, I really am going blind. I looked at that unit for 3-4 minutes and never even noticed that. I’ll have to look at it closely in the morning.

  21. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by dinotom View Post
    Wow, I really am going blind. I looked at that unit for 3-4 minutes and never even noticed that. I’ll have to look at it closely in the morning.
    When you're in there pull and check the heaters (left and right of the overload reset button). The numbers there will give their OL amps, a second call on voltage albeit a little indirect.

  22. #40
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    The tag you pointed me to is labeled 208 220V with 600Y on the bottom and the tag under that is labeled 464 and either a V or Y, it’s not that legible.

    Not sure how that helps me. I will pull the heaters tomorrow


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