Restoring 10EE 1954 vintage
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  1. #1
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    Default Restoring 10EE 1954 vintage

    I have been slowly gearing up to restore the 10EE I purchased some 14 months ago. Over that time I have familiarized myself with different approaches to restoring such a machine. Before jumping into the mechanics, I decided to strip off the layers of grease and paint that have accumulated. After a few hours of applying chemical stripper and scraping off the various coats it occurred to me I have no idea if the material on the machine has lead in it. I am pretty sure the outermost coat does not as it seems pretty recent(and lead based paints are not easily obtained in this country). Whoever did that last coat did a fine job of coating everything such as sight glasses, lever labels, vent covers, etc. I am surprised the spindle nose was not covered. As I got through the various layers I noticed as I got closer to metal the paint seemed somewhat softer. My first thought was it is epoxy based but probably not likely in 1954. At that point I started thinking that maybe lead in that layer is what is making it soft. So I stopped stripping until I have time to access what I got myself into. I never hit these layers with a sander but I would rather not continue the process of chemical stripping until I have some idea on this lead issue.

    So have I just poisoned myself (or worse others I share a house with)? I read that as long as I do not sand the surface I should be safe...but then I read how one should protect themselves during lead paint removal including throw away coveralls and respirators. None of which I followed. I feel like an idiot for not thinking about this beforehand. A this point I am not sure if I should just stop what I am doing and live with the machine as is, continue stripping or just cover up what I have with a fresh coat of paint and call it done.

    Any help and/or advice is greatly appreciated.

    -MB

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    How much work do you want to do? Standard bodywork basics is to rough up the basecoat without removing the filler, spray on a sealer, then spray your primer fillers and sand on those without dealing with the basecoat. Or....you can disassemble the whole thing, take the pieces down to a industrial stripping place , come back with clean castings and go from there. Unfortunately, sometimes the old paint is so oil soaked and with so many porch paint layers, that it is impossible to get a nice finish without stripping it all off.

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    I scraped the paint off my '42 machine with a flat carbide scraper. It came off in flakes and curls and though it didn't give a showroom finish it allowed me to paint it one colour without risk of toxic fumes or heavy clouds of dust. It wasn't that onerous a task either.

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    My 1950 basket case 10EE had been repainted at some point in its life, but with a low-quality paint that did not survive being sprayed with Harbor Freight degreaser and a pressure washer. The original paint adhered very well, so I am not going to try to remove it.

    I have just about finished scraping off the repaint job and am getting ready to prepare it for a first-class refinishing job. I used a razor blade scraper for the flat and gently curved areas, and a triangular scraper for the tight curves and stubborn spots. In a few areas where the casting is rough, I'm using a power wire brush. I found a lot of spots where the original finish has been chipped down to bare metal, so those will have to be filled.

    What I am looking for is product recommendations -- sealer, primer, filler, and the paint itself. I have seen various products mentioned in other threads, but not to the point that I can say, "This is THE product to use." I would like your opinions on these (and any others you may have used):

    Delstar acrylic enamel

    Deltron acrylic urethane

    Delfleet Essential 2-part

    Southern Polyurethane 2K hi-build sanding primer

    Evercoat Metal Glaze

    DP-40 epoxy base + surfacer

    DP-40LF 2-part epoxy

    Given all the complex areas to paint, would I be better off spraying or brushing? What type of brush or spray gun? Are Harbor Freight spray guns any good for this type of job? How about Eastwood?

    I have exactly zero experience in painting, so any advice you can give me would be welcome. Heck, I don't even know if primer should be applied before or after I fill the dings.

    At the moment, the only thing attached to the base/bed is the headstock. The gearbox, apron, saddle, and tailstock will be done later, as I get each of them ready to install.

    I've got the base mounted on three machinery skates, so I can wheel it out of my garage and onto the driveway to work on it. This means I will be painting it outdoors, probably in the early morning hours before the winds pick up.

    Thanks,
    Alan

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    I wouldn't worry overmuch about some slight amount of dust from sanding as long as you're vacuuming things up as you're going along (and avoiding eating it). If you're really concerned keep your kids out during the process (and don't let them lick the floor).

    As for painting several of us have posted what we used, etc. I used standard auto body filler for the big divots, sanded that down and then hit it with a high fill auto primer from Dupont. After a couple of rounds of that I hit it with a color dusting using Sherman Williams Kem 400 enamel, the second coat being fairly wet. All painting was spray using a cheap-ass Harbor Freight HVLP gun. I think it came out OK, paint is lasting but has chipped in a few places from hits that I'd expect to chip most any paint.

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    I used DP-40 primer as a base, and a PPG surfacer /filler that I don't remember, and topped with Delstar enamel. If I had my druthers,I would've top coated with Deltron. It's just a bit more ornery and expensive to shoot. I figured the Delstar would be a good choice cause it's cheaper, and at the time more widely available. But here recently, I went to get a small quart of it for touch up work, and it seems nobody( in this area) uses it anymore. What I like about Deltron is that you can screw up, drips/runs, and can sand and polish it out. I used a Harbor Freight HVLP gun for all the primer, etc, but topcoated with my pet Devilbliss touch up gun.

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    Would you guys mind posting pictures of how your machines came out?

    I have been considering brushing using Magnet Paints 4800 series urethane. I don't have the means to consider spraying at this point. Bad Request

    I am curious to see if details like fastener heads are typically painted over.

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    Keep in mind that this was pretty much the first thing I ever painted with HVLP:


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    C..an't ....resist...urge...to showboat......


    1959 Monarch EE-Endgame

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    Wow...these examples are just amazing. I guess I need to up my game.

    It would appear both examples do not have details covered over in paint...which I really enjoy. My machine arrived with paint over EVERYTHING...including the sight glasses for checking the various oil wells.

    One question...were the various handles re-chromed? Everything just looks so amazing I cannot imagine that came from polishing.

    Thank you for posting the pictures. I really appreciate seeing what others have done.

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    Quote Originally Posted by daryl bane View Post
    C..an't ....resist...urge...to showboat......


    1959 Monarch EE-Endgame
    Does sorta put down any complaints that a simple gray colour shortchanges beauty in any way, dun' it?


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    Actually I made all the round knobs outta SS, the ball ended ones I had replated. I prefer to paint all the components separately and then carefully assemble. Some will roll their eyes, but best restoration practice is to do all the trial fitting, repair etc, before paint, get out all the kinks, and take it apart to paint. More trouble, but just looks mo better.

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    How are the unpainted surfaces on the carriage treated? It looks like the surfaces were hand scraped? I am new to machine restoration (at this level) so please forgive my ignorance. I have no idea how to handle those bare metal surfaces, make them look good and keep them from rusting.

    I am still at the removing all paint phase and can put up some pictures if anyone sees the value in that.

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    The original carriage surfaces were a mess. I think the operators liked to bang out In-A Gadda-Da-Vida on the apron top with a icepick during a cut. Anyway, when I took the way/base to Commerce for grinding, I took along the carriage top and crosslide. I asked if they could grind a few thousanths off the top for appearance sake. They said sure, but did a right accurate job of it. It looked good but not great, and I reasoned that these would make good reference surfaces for the Moglice job to come. So did my checks, found the grind job to be accurate in maintaing the geometry of the carriage and finish scraped the parts to flatness. The scraping covers a lot of minor sins.

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    I was also curious about whether or not my 10EE was originally painted with lead-based paint. So I went to the hardware store and bought a lead testing kit. This is the sort where you moisten a small (treated) cloth patch with a few drops of water and rub it on the surface for two minutes. If it turns pink or red, the surface has lead (the darker, the higher the concentration).

    I just did the test on the headstock of my 1950 10EE (EE-33309) and it indicates NO lead at all. This puts my mind at ease, and gives you guys a data point for late 1950.

    Alan

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    Like Daryl I had my saddle ground. It took me a while to figure out just what the operator had done but I've concluded that he banged out the swarf from files by rapping the file on the inside edge of the saddle. Lots and lots of 3/16 long lines parallel to each other and about 1/8" wear on the saddle from the banging. I had it rough ground, the cross slide dovetail ways ground square and parallel and the cross slide rough ground on the outside. As I was refitting the cross slide to the saddle it didn't really matter, I used Multifil (sorta kinda Turcite) to lift it back up centering the cross slide screws and getting the gib back in play (albeit with a shim on the dead side).

    I didn't remake any knobs or have them chromed, just cleaned them up. A lot of the mating surfaces between covers and the mating surface was hit with Scotchbrite on a 4 1/2 grinder, just to clean off rust and crud. I stripped paint on the body until it was pretty non-reactive with the stripper. At that point I let things dry and sanded it for putty and primer - if stripper isn't taking it off I figured it was good.

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    I went out to HD tonight and got one of the lead test kits. Suspicion confirmed ...there is lead in there. Wish it weren't the case but there it is. I guess at this point I am leaning towards completing the striping job until I get to the lead layer and stopping there. Put on primer and go from there. I know this not as good a solution as possible...but working in my garage I would like to minimize the risk to myself and everyone in the house.

    I figured if I get the mechanics of the machine working well and freshen up the look of the paint I could be happy at that point.

    What sort of paint do you guys suggest for back filling the lever labels and such? I have already cleaned them up but am not sure what material to use that will stay in place through use.

    -Walt

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    Black model enamel from the hobby store is what I use. Too much trouble to make up a batch of exotic paint and primer. I just paint it on clean metal, seems still good after 10+ years.

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    when you guys mention getting the saddle ground what surfaces are you referring to? Does the underside get ground?

    Also...how do you go about finding someone who can handle the grinding operations? I live near Baltimore.


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