Resurrecting 1960 10EE with 460V Sabina drive - Page 3
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  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by thermite View Post
    "Multiple"? And the Customer Service contact was not /au fait/ with a tick-the-box SKU, has to check with "his Engineer'?

    The "school solution" might come back a Phase-Perfect?
    Mine was $4,000.
    It's murky for me as well - but I'm not really in a position to push to hard.
    He is giving me his time - and I am certainly not going to be their largest customer...
    He seems pretty savvy about 10EE's specifically, and Sabina's history with them. He gets that I am a homeowner with a garage - as opposed to a sizable shop - and is trying to tailor a no frills solution for me with existing parts. Not sure what that solution is, and mid explanation - he had to check himself - so perhaps it is not going to work.

    Hope it's not the $4K one - or I will be right back down to the seller's house with cash in hand to buy his RPC this was previously running on.

    Let's see what he get's us - and I will report back and see what we have.
    Thanks for sticking with.
    -CM

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    Here's what a complete taper attachment looks like with the top bracket and round nut. This is off a Monarch 12CK, so it is a very similar design but a different scale. The plate off the back of the compound goes under that bracket, the threaded stub sticking up goes through the hole in the plate coming off your compound. The rod would screw in on the right of this picture to the little projection. It doesn't have the micro-adjustment dial, which would mount on the left side from this view.

    I'm not sure without the taper attachment how compound is set up. IIRC the thing may not be rigid, as the taper attachment secures the compound's leadscrew nut from floating.



    Here's a picture of the rod and clamp bracket, again off a 12CK but same concept.

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by charlieman22 View Post
    *snip*
    Let's see what he get's us - and I will report back and see what we have.
    Thanks for sticking with.
    -CM
    "Vested interest".

    Way down the priorities list, but I want to trial a 3-Phase DC Drive meself. Not Sabina. A 4Q 24-pulse critter.

    I do have mains-quality 3-P - within limits ( 55A - approx 12 kVA), plus the 10 HP P-P, plus (up to) 27 idler-HP RPC.

    But I am a VERY long way from California!

    And that's a feature. Not a bug.


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    Quote Originally Posted by rabler View Post

    I'm not sure without the taper attachment how compound is set up. IIRC the thing may not be rigid, as the taper attachment secures the compound's leadscrew nut from floating.
    Thanks Rabler - the images are helpful.
    Above comment kinda caught my eye.
    Might my 3/4 turns of backlash on my cross feed be related to the missing taper attachment rather than internal workings?
    I haven't investigated yet - but are you suggesting the cross feed mechanism is intertwined with the taper attachment normally?

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    Quote Originally Posted by charlieman22 View Post
    Thanks Rabler - the images are helpful.
    Above comment kinda caught my eye.
    Might my 3/4 turns of backlash on my cross feed be related to the missing taper attachment rather than internal workings?
    I haven't investigated yet - but are you suggesting the cross feed mechanism is intertwined with the taper attachment normally?
    Monarch or most others.. .there are two general approaches to integrating a TA.

    - Simplest way, and best for hasty DIY TA:

    -- the fastener affixing the cross-feed nut to the top slide is pulled.
    -- the top-slide is clamped or bolted to (a linkage to) the slider on the TA

    PRO: cheap, cheerful, rugged, works on essentialy ANY lathe, leadscrew is full-strength.

    CON: requires a ration of fiddling to switch back and forth.

    More elegant system, the cross feed screw is coaxial hence "telescopic". That requires it be more complex, not as strong as a solid screw, and that it be accompanied by appropriate bearings and fasteners.

    PRO: less time wasted when converting back and forth from used/not used.

    CON: More and more complex bits are more costly and a tad more fragile.

    Both work.

    The determinant as to how well is the precision, stiffness, (and condition..) of the bar and slider, regardless.. not the way the link is switched back and forth.

    I have the "simpler" one of those Monarch use on my '44 10EE. No geared or Micrometer-set rig. Not a problem. If I need the TA, I'm having to work off a physical component, not usually a drawing anyway. Setting for a match is expected.

    All it needed was a glass (still owe it that much), and a new bed clamp and connecting rod with the nuts.

    Member "vettebob" had made a "batch" of those OFTEN damaged and missing bits, and was offering them to PM members at what must have been his cost, because they were superbly made and not at all expensive.

    If you can find one of those? Buy his PARTS even if you do not yet have the TA!

    There will always be someone who needs those, even if you never become he!


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    Move the cross -slide in all the way and see if the backlash changes. If it doesn't I suspect a thrust washer or the thrust washers nut is loose. If it gets less then the feed screw is worn.
    If you have access to another lathe, then you can buy a threaded acme screw and cut and bore the original screw and and press fit it into the old screw. I usually put a taper pin through the pressed fit too. Then buy a new brass screw and mill it down and drill and tap the bore a hole in it, then turn down the threads on the new acme screw nut to attach to the cross-slide. I am a professional machine rebuilder and have done this and saved a lot of money compared to buy new from factory parts especially on the older machines where they make parts from archived blue prints. You can buy them from Green Bay Manufacturing

    I also have a good friend who has rebuilt his Monarch EE lathe ways, electrics, everything, ground bed.... He used to belong to this forum. He doesn't come on much anymore because of trolls.
    You can find info a his rebuild - his name was VetteBob.

    New to me 10EE

    If you want to talk to him message me and I will give you his email.

    I found this great manuals with some great drawings.
    http://vintagemachinery.org/pubs/2103/24940.pdf

    http://vintagemachinery.org/pubs/2103/21434.pdf

    http://vintagemachinery.org/pubs/2103/20795.pdf

    http://vintagemachinery.org/pubs/2103/19749.pdf

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    Quote Originally Posted by charlieman22 View Post
    Thanks Rabler - the images are helpful.
    Above comment kinda caught my eye.
    Might my 3/4 turns of backlash on my cross feed be related to the missing taper attachment rather than internal workings?
    I haven't investigated yet - but are you suggesting the cross feed mechanism is intertwined with the taper attachment normally?
    Yes. It has to be, as when in use, the taper attachment moves the whole cross slide in/out. That's how it cuts a taper. So it could lead to even more creep than 3/4 turn backlash if I am remembering it correctly. When the taper attachment is not being used, the plate sticking out of the back of the cross slide is normally locked in place by a clamp on the taper attachment. That clamp shows up on my taper attachment as the hex head "bolt" on the very back (uppermost on the image). That clamp is why your plate sticking out of the back of your cross slide has a ring marred on it, it is from being clamped there. Without the taper attachment, that clamp is missing. That means the plate is free to move in/out, which means the whole cross slide can move, without even turning the dial.

    Whoever removed the TA on yours may have done something nonstandard to compensate. But this is what I was trying to highlight earlier when I mentioned that you can't just add/remove a taper attachment, the cross slide has to be one built to accommodate the taper attachment. Your lathe obviously was, given the plate sticking out the back of the cross slide.



    The second PDF that Richard King posted above, page 9, has the parts diagram of the taper attachement. http://vintagemachinery.org/pubs/2103/21434.pdf

    Part #36 is the plate sticking out of the back of your cross slide, called a "draw bar" in the parts list. The four small holes about 1/2 way up that drawbar are where the "crossfeed screw bearing", part #35 of the previous page, attach, connecting the crossfeed leadscrew to that draw bar (plate).
    Part #39 is the bracket over the top of the taper attachment that is missing in the pictures of the one you posted.
    Part #44 and #42 are the rod and clamp mechanism missing in the TA posted.
    Several of the smaller parts are missing too, I'm not going to try to catalogue each.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rabler View Post
    *snip*
    But this is what I was trying to highlight earlier when I mentioned that you can't just add/remove a taper attachment, the cross slide has to be one built to accommodate the taper attachment. Your lathe obviously was, given the plate sticking out the back of the cross slide.
    Cannot do a TA "easily and properly" to just any-old topslide, no.

    But assuredly CAN add TA functionality to a lathe not built for it.

    "Strange" TA salvaged off unrelated lathes and shop-fab TA have been in use for ages, at least a few adapted ones shown in PM threads.

    It is back to having to pull the fastener to the topslide nut. And then fasten the topslide to a "link" or bar that locks it to the slider of the TA INSTEAD OF the nut

    PITA? Yah, sorta.

    But if you only need a TA a few times a year?

    Very livable situation vs "No GOTS".

    Bottom line is to hold yer fire for a BETTER TA that needs no welding. Even if it does not have the micrometer set feature, it will be at-work for you sooner.

    Lots of ways to get a job done while seeking.

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    Richard,
    Thank you.
    Documents are exceptional.
    Had seen some of the images on PM - wondered where they came from.
    Much appreciated.

    I've also seen some of vettebob's work - he made and sold some components for other's - including some casted parts.
    Very impressive.
    Wondered if he was still around.

    Quote Originally Posted by Richard King View Post
    Move the cross -slide in all the way and see if the backlash changes. If it doesn't I suspect a thrust washer or the thrust washers nut is loose. If it gets less then the feed screw is worn.
    Ran the cross slide away from me completely.
    Then ran it all the way back to me.
    The backlash was unchanged.
    However - should note - when running the cross slide fully away from the user - it gets tighter as it gets towards its extreme.

    As per your note - this suggests thrust washer or accompanying nut.
    Appears that the thrust washer goes into a block (35) that serves as the seat for the cross slide thrust bearing. There are some washers and a castle nut as well. Believe this is the area you are pointing me to.

    I can access the castle nut to tighten without removing anything. Any reason not to snug it up and see if that helps? Know that's not the same as replacing bearing/washers - but seems like a reasonable first step?

    (Found a video of someone assembling - posting here for both my own reference and anyone else that may read through this. 10EE part 18 Working on the Cross Slide - YouTube )

    The apron will be an early area of focus for me in tuning and readying the machine.
    If I determine that my screw or nut are also in need of replacement - I can re-visit your fix for those at that time. Very slick. Thank you.


    Thermite - just heard back from Sabina.
    As suspected - my guy there came to realize that the simpler solution was not going to work.
    He didn't go in to great detail on why - but did give me a few options.
    1. Rotary... they source this so he gave me direct contact for North American Phase Converter.
    2. They will build me a box, 2 wires in, 3 out. Solid state. $2484.

    Additionally - after getting the information off the drive - the system uses 460V. That increases the challenge. Turns out Sabina does not have a solution for that, solid state wise. They tell me that it was exceptionally rare to build them with 460 - but it appears I have one of them.

    Now re-considering making an offer on the rotary converter that was driving this. Little confused - because it was also powering a Tree 2UVR - and I am skeptical that that was also 460. Have asked seller what voltage the rotary is. He seemed surprised it was 460.

    Hmmm.
    The journey begins.

    (pictures of the rotary below)
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails img_3548-2.jpg   screen-shot-2021-08-13-2.00.09-pm.jpg   screen-shot-2021-08-13-2.00.03-pm.jpg   img_3549.jpg  

  12. #50
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    The guy you got it from also has the step down transformer (7.5kva, wired in reverse) to convert 240v to 480v That is something you must have to run it if it is a 460v only machine. It is the pic of the grey box in your last post. It is a single phase xfmr so he must have wired it to the input of his RPC? There is also a second transformer in the other pic, what would it be doing? Possibly a small three phase to go back from 480v to 240v for the tree mill?

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    Should probably have asked the question as well: will a mid 40s round dial taper attachment fit a 1960s model square dial?
    IÂ’m aware there was a change - but not clear on what that was.
    Thanks.
    -CM

  14. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by charlieman22 View Post
    just heard back from Sabina.
    As suspected - my guy there came to realize that the simpler solution was not going to work.

    He didn't go in to great detail on why - but did give me a few options.
    1. Rotary... they source this so he gave me direct contact for North American Phase Converter.
    White-bread.
    2. They will build me a box, 2 wires in, 3 out. Solid state. $2484.
    Eaton & others have 1-P to 3-P inverters, AKA "NON-Variable VFD' .. that are probably less costly. What with having had one if not two Phase-Perfect for years, I haven't had the need to scout for them.

    We / the community can do that. ISTR we have already discussed at least one of those ...Eaton? .. in your other thread?

    Additionally - after getting the information off the drive - the system uses 460V. That increases the challenge. Turns out Sabina does not have a solution for that, solid state wise. They tell me that it was exceptionally rare to build them with 460 - but it appears I have one of them.
    I suspect you have confused each other? A DC Drive has a maximum AC feed Voltage that it's components can work with, all day, every day, for many days, for long years. A higher-yet Voltage they can survive, briefly ..

    ... but can otherwise (usually) operate at any lesser AC Voltage.


    Now re-considering making an offer on the rotary converter that was driving this. Little confused - because it was also powering a Tree 2UVR - and I am skeptical that that was also 460. Have asked seller what voltage the rotary is. He seemed surprised it was 460.

    Hmmm.
    The journey begins.

    (pictures of the rotary below)

    Zooming the foto hit pixel blur before I could read the labels.

    That said.. it seems to include a 220/230/240 -> 440/460/480 VAC transformer of around 5 to 7 kVA or a skosh above that - maybe even 10- kVA - as the tall grey unit right of the idler. It might also be a 2XX VAC to 380 VAC or 2XX VAC ro 277 VAC all fugures nominal.

    Plus a smaller transformer of 5 kVA or less approx 2 kVA more likely - the one lying flat with its wiring cover half-off.

    Such a combo can be the raw-material with which to resolve the apparent contradiction. Still a SWAG. Not enough information.

    That said, the general expectation is:

    Feed a single-phase Thyristor class direct-on-the-line switcher DC drive @ 230 VAC, get 180 VDC out.

    Feed a 3-Phase DC Drive 230 VAC in, get 250 VDC out.

    IF your 10EE motor is the "usual" 230 VDC nameplated being operated at 250 VDC & a bit, it would arc-flash its commutator and begin to die before ever it stood 500 VDC.

    I wish I had taken pictures when I made it happen during destructive tests!
    Sure a Hell needed no flash!



    So the Sabina is almost certainly NOT actually being operated at 460 VAC input.

    Even if it were to be commutating only on one phase, we're good around 320-330 VAC, and 380 VAC is plenty. Keep in mind the drive isn't a transformer or Variac, but it can assuredly deliver LESSER Voltages on command.

    That's why we call it a "DC Drive" instead of an ITT Pentaconta... just in case you think a Sabina drive has more hair than armpits:

    http://doc.telephonecollectors.info/...conta_1000.pdf


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    Quote Originally Posted by charlieman22 View Post
    ... my machine was advertised as "with taper attachment".
    Turned out not to exist.
    However - the cross slide appears to me to have an attaching bar.
    ...


    What you're calling the "attaching bar" is correctly called the "Draw Bar" (part EE-1591). Whoever removed the taper attachment (TA) from your lathe didn't understand that it's part of the TA assembly. I'm willing to be that you also have the telescoping-type cross-feed screw. (You'll have to remove the cross-feed dial to verify that.) If the dial comes out without the screw, it's the telescoping type.

    Square-dial parts sheets 120 and 121 show (respectively) the standard and telescoping versions. However, parts sheet 121 doesn't show how the telescoping part works. Round-dial parts picture E8 show it better, see parts E8-61 and -63. The Monarch Information stick has links for versions of both manuals: link.

    Without the bridge clamp that mounts on the back of the TA, a telescoping cross-feed screw won't work correctly. The bridge clamp holds the draw bar in position when the TA is not in use and gives the draw-bar and cross-feed nut something to push against. Without it, friction is all that's holding the draw bar in place. And yes, this will definitely affect the cross-feed backlash. You're going to have to come up with a way to clamp the draw bar in place for the cross-feed to work properly.

    Here's what the clamp on my round-dial looks like:
    img_3469.jpg

    Quote Originally Posted by charlieman22 View Post
    ...
    Sourced a taper attachment for sale.
    ...
    What I am trying to determine is - what is this missing to be complete when added to my machine.

    The description for the taper attachment reads:"Taper Assembly for Monarch model 10EE metalwork lathe..Overall condition is good except for the angle adjustment assembly. The worm gear is missing.The cast iron housing has both mounting tabs broken off. ...
    ...Boston Gear is likely to sell the proper worm gear.
    The rod and clamp for clamping to the main lathe structure are not available and not part of this sale."
    ...


    Square-dial parts sheet 113 shows the TA parts. Sheet 114 shows the bed bracket and micrometer adjuster.

    The TA pictured above is missing the clamp bridge (like mine, above), part EE-2411, the clamp bolt (EE-1550) and the spanner nut that engages the stud on top of the TA's "shoe", part EE-1589. Fortunately, those parts are fairly simple and can be easily fabricated.

    I do not know if the TA from a round-dial will fit on a square-dial. Part numbers on the parts sheet in the 1500 to 1700 range are legacy parts from the original design. Parts with numbers over 2400 are from a redesign and won't interchange. Since the carriage bracket, EE-2422, which is what bolts to the 10EE's carriage, is one of those parts, it may not fit if this is a round-dial TA. (I know this has come up before, but I don't recall the answer.) You'll want to get some good measurements from the seller to see how the bolt pattern lines up with the tapped holes on you machine.

    Cal

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  17. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by thermite View Post
    Zooming the foto hit pixel blur before I could read the labels.

    That said.. it seems to include a 220/230/240 -> 440/460/480 VAC transformer of around 5 to 7 kVA or a skosh above that - maybe even 10- kVA - as the tall grey unit right of the idler. It might also be a 2XX VAC to 380 VAC (nominal).

    Plus a smaller transformer or 5 kVA or less - 2 kVA more likely - the one lying flat with its wiring cover half-off.
    I could see the tag, it is a single phase, primary 240/480 to secondary 120/240, 7.5KVA. Up in post #50 I speculated how I think the components are wired together:

    Quote Originally Posted by Rob F. View Post
    The guy you got it from also has the step down transformer (7.5kva, wired in reverse) to convert 240v to 480v That is something you must have to run it if it is a 460v only machine. It is the pic of the grey box in your last post. It is a single phase xfmr so he must have wired it to the input of his RPC? There is also a second transformer in the other pic, what would it be doing? Possibly a small three phase to go back from 480v to 240v for the tree mill?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rob F. View Post
    I could see the tag, it is a single phase, primary 240/480 to secondary 120/240, 7.5KVA. Up in post #50 I speculated how I think the components are wired together:
    Thanks.. that all make sense .. at least up until you trigger the SCR's.

    The output side to DC does the usual "Law of Physics" thing wth a max of over 380 VDC.

    Now "if all goes well.." it can switch in such a manner as to deliver a few VDC, only. Or even ZERO.

    So at first glance, all you need to do is commission it with a max VDC out, load side, permitted of, for example 275 VDC, be happy for the 4XX incoming, and that even with a weak generated leg off the RPC, there's plenty of energy under the curve for the motor to integrate (Current realm).

    Not only am I more "comfortable" when the incoming is a closer match so the DC motor won't be over-stressed even if the Voltage limit was NOT sanely set.. or had FAILED.. the more you rely on longer OFF time to drop the power, the rougher the result.

    Rough ENOUGH that Reliance specifies a "ripple filter" inductor as mandatory on any RPM III motor wound for more than 180 VDC.

    Annd the "Rectified Power Motor" (RPM) family EXPECTED rude-bugger switching. The older motors in 10EE did not.

    Ergo for what we wanted out of a 10EE off "two pulse" single-phase, that was a 16 to 20+ mH choke.

    For a 3-P "six pulse" drive, a much lower inductance can work. it really only has to knock the sharp edge off and the motor is happy. 20 MICRO not milli.. Henrys would probably do. As it must do, in general, given there are plenty of such inductors in recycler channels. The big Hammonds, OTOH, were about $300 each, had to be sourced brand-new.

    That is as much to prolong the life of already-OLD DC motors as it is for quieter running and no "watermarking" on fine surface finishes.

    If Sabina has some "magic", such as the 24 Pulse patent?

    There are still several Terabytes spare in the "collected notes" folder, here.

    So I'm all download or cut-and-save "ears"...

    Meanwhile "more eyes, please!"

    Get enough of us on it, looking from enough angles, we can reverse engineer the bugger and "know" what it is doing .... and how!



    Shorter take, jumping off your post 50, I "suspect" it would be better to parallel the primaries of:

    - 1 1:1 xfrmr 240:240 @ 5 kVA (or better),

    - 1 2:1 xfrmr 240:120 @ 2.5 kVA (or better)

    Series their secondary windings for 360 VAC into (and out of..) the RPC to serve the Sabina drive. Lose about 80 V in the conversion to DC, and be safe-enough @ approx 280 VDC?

    Where "or better" might be DOUBLE both kVA ratings .. so as ro not be overly limited as to RPC starting struggle?

    1:1 Isolation and 2:1 isolation goods should be common-enough.

    And we get our drive "isolated" as to reducing switching artifacts that impinge on the local grid.

    The Tree (or wotever) could have its own RPC, VFD.. or wotever..)

  19. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by charlieman22 View Post
    Should probably have asked the question as well: will a mid 40s round dial taper attachment fit a 1960s model square dial?
    IÂ’m aware there was a change - but not clear on what that was.
    Thanks.
    -CM
    Changes, yes. ISTR PM has covered them, already, and that the major change is in the crossfeed as to telescopic/not screw, the support, linkage, and bearings related to that ... and not in the attach bolt pattern on the rear apron?

    I *think* the Square-Dial always had the telescoping screw if it shipped with a TA at all, but the Round Dial could have it, OR the earlier TA that didn't use it?

    I could be wrong.. I only have round-dial goods, here.

    BTW . it isn't a show-stopper.

    Find a(ny) 10EE TA in decent condition that might need some grinding or scraping to correct wear, but is NOT a buggered or bustid-up basket case from a lathe being "tumbled"? Just grab it.

    It will be easy enough to find or make parts to adapt it.

    Meanwhile.. your "symptoms", as already hinted around the edges of, are of the usual "hourglass" wear, looser in the most-used region, tightening toward the less often traversed ends..

    PLUS a far larger range of movement indicating failure to function of the "anchorages" at the ends that control thrust forces to prevent the whole leadscrew from shifting end to end and carrying the worn nut WITH it.

    The hourglass wear is relatively "tolerable" for a(ny) experienced lathe hand even with rather dreadful wear.

    You only apply force to advance the tool and hold it against back forces in ONE drection at a time. The slack take-up is annoying when re-positioning but not a major factor once in the cut.

    The gross movement, OTOH IS a Big Deal and should be assessed for correction first.

    Cal just aimed you directly at the almost CERTAIN cause.

    Follow his lead. Even a clamp and some scrap can hold it well enough to confirm that lack of a fixed anchorage is the source of your slack.

    You will probably have to fab an anchor bar as he showed. It can be temporary, even "ugly" while you make a nicer one.



    IF.. you need parts at all, they should also be less costy and/or amenable to temporary monkey-patching at relatively low cost compared to fabbing or purchasing a new screw and nut.

    Bottom line? If you can fix a(ny) fault cheaply or rapidly? JFDI.

    The more small nuisances dealt with, the easier it is to use a(ny) machine-tool to help repair itself, and the more clear the picture of "the hard stuff" remaining to put onto the RTWL (Round Tuit Wish List).
    Last edited by thermite; 08-14-2021 at 12:26 AM.

  20. #57
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    I have both a round dial and a square dial with taper attachment.

    If you got a specific measurement to take, just PM me.

    Karl

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    It sounds as if someone has been in there and screwed it up (cross-slide screw). The test I told you to make was to see if the screw and nut was worn. On most lathes the screw is worn in the middle and the nut is worn, so you would see more basklash in the middle. If you did it and the screw backlash is the same all the way that means something else is loose. Unless for some reason the screw was used the whole length which I find very doubtful. Put a mag base on the saddle (part that slides on the bed) and put a dial indicator on the end of the screw and grab the compound and push and pull it and check the movement of the screw. If it moves the same amount as the backlash on the dial then it has to be loose someplace or the bearing is shot. Those links are from Vintagemachinery.org If you found them useful then please donate a few dollars to help it stay online.

    My friend Keith Rucker made the site and it is updated and paid for by volunteers and donations. (Vette) Bob has moved to TN now and is a really nice guy. If you can't get the drive working at a reasonable price. I would call him as he gutted the original and built a new system. He was an electrical technician (Buck Sergeant when he retired) in the Airforce and repaired all sorts of systems.

    Sometimes it takes someone with a different viewpoint. I was there a few of times when he rebuilt it as he was a host to a scraping class when he lived in Kansas City. (I used to drive thru KC on my way to my cabin on Lake of the Ozarks) He gutted all that electrical crap in the machine base and designed new and simple drive. He went down to Steve Watkins place in Texas and helped him get his 2 EE machines running (one was so bad they made it a parts machine). So he has got 3 machines going. I can give you his email or phone number. I am positive he won't come on here to help as one of the trolls he has issues with is still on here.

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    Okay - I started two fires there at once.
    Let me see if I can clean it up a bit.

    First - backlash.
    I suspect the issue may be a compound one - focused around the crossfeed screw bearing (36)/surrounding components/ and the draw bar.

    *edit - by "compound" I mean stacking tolerances.

    As pointed out by Carl and Rabler - normally the draw bar would clamp to the main casting of the taper attachment - which in turn carries the load back to the saddle. Without it, the draw bar is free to flex.
    There doesn't appear to be any additional support added.
    That's also likely put more strain on the thrust bearing and its associated housing. So parts 34,35,36 et all could have some wear as Richard had first suggested might be the case.
    I will have to inspect - and I'll share my findings.
    Thanks to everyone that took the time to input on that.

    Replacement TA.
    Well - this discussion is a good argument for why I should replace it if I can.
    I could always create a support for the draw bar on its own - but it would be nice to put the TA back.
    Noted some parts are missing from the one I've posted.


    Cal - thanks for laying out all that info for me so well. Noted square/round dial mounting may have some differences. I will contact the seller and see if I can get the dimensions.

    Karl - thank you for that offer on dimensions. Perhaps we can identify which one it is after I get some dimensions.

    Richard - I live in California - but I'm from Ga. originally - and I am in that part of the world a half dozen times a year still. Keith does great stuff.
    As for my drive - I'm a fan of the Sabina - it's run in this guys garage since the mid 1970's trouble free. When I operated it, I was kinda shocked by how nicely integrated it was. Breaking - forward rev - low speed torque - full RPM. Think I'm going to first try and re-create what prior owner had.

    Rob F.
    The guy you got it from also has the step down transformer (7.5kva, wired in reverse) to convert 240v to 480v That is something you must have to run it if it is a 460v only machine. It is the pic of the grey box in your last post. It is a single phase xfmr so he must have wired it to the input of his RPC? There is also a second transformer in the other pic, what would it be doing? Possibly a small three phase to go back from 480v to 240v for the tree mill?
    Rob - thanks. This makes sense to me. That power supply setup is in fact also powering the Tree - which I can't imagine is a 460V set up.

    Bill - your last post was unfortunately over my head. More me than you...
    Have the sense you have a good idea about what should be created if I can't get the original power supply - but just couldn't decipher exactly what that was!
    Can you "kids glove" a version of that for me? Were you and Rob in agreement?
    I struggled.

    Thanks all.
    -CM

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    Quote Originally Posted by charlieman22 View Post
    Can you "kids glove" a version of that for me? Were you and Rob in agreement?
    I struggled.

    Thanks all.
    -CM
    Rob called it on the "as built", yes, we agree.

    I simply would not have built it the way it "seems to be".

    The 500 VDC a 3-Phase DC Drive can convert 460 VAC into is much higher than it needs to be for a nominal 230 VDC load motor.

    230 V AC in, 250 V DC out, so it SHOULD work with NO transformer on the RPC.

    Same as other 3-Phase DC Drives do off "true" 3-Phase power. And the Sabina, new, is 2 or 3 times their price, new?

    For an RPC "source"?

    Most needed is greater idler HP than usual to stiffen the generated leg .Power actually drawn is no higher. The 3-P DC Drive is just more demanding of reserves because it is a fast-switching and highly variable load.

    And only "maybe" an extra 24 to 48 VAC above 230/240?

    Or use a single-phase DC Drive, money put toward a boost/drive-isolation input transformer plus an output ripple-filter choke but .. no longer a need for an RPC at all? That's also lower cost.


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