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Reviving a '56 EE

molassesbros

Plastic
Joined
Aug 5, 2017
Hey everybody,
Long time lurker, first time poster. Gotta say thanks to all the great people on sharing their knowledge about keeping these machines running. I have gathered a lot of info here in hopes of bringing back to life a '56 EE (#42092) that my long time employer/friend owns. He purchased it in the mid '80s and has never had it running because it was wired for 460 3ph. Every shop building he has been in only had 230 3ph.

He has had several people over the years, including machine installation electricians, look at the lathe to determine if it can run on 230, but no body could confidently say "yes". He got answers like:
"You gotta buy all the transformers and tubes from Monarch to make it run".
"Just plug it in to 230, it should work"
"Get a step up transformer" and..
"Gut it and put in a VFD"

He is now looking at retirement and would like to bring the lathe home and use it in the garage with 230 single phase. After searching PM and coming across peterh5322 post: https://www.practicalmachinist.com/...ve-universal-wiad-voltage-conversions-176641/, it seems like we may be able to finally get it running again. However, someone has been into the wiring already and there are some suspicious connections and loose, uncapped wires dangling around inside the WiaD compartment.

So first order of business was to get the wiring diagrams from Monarch. After calling and talking with Terrie Schwaiger ([email protected]), she was kind enough to email over. I went to my local copy center and printed them out on 11x17, but now realize with my failing eyes, I'm going to have to go bigger. There is also some text in the "NOTES" area that has faded and I cannot make out.

I don't want to guess what it says, so I was hoping maybe someone on here can fill in the missing info. Also, does anyone else have prints that look like this, where it looks like the images have been stretched? I can't believe the original print had ovals where it looks like it should be circle. Thanks in advance!
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A WiaD can and does operate on single phase, the only native part of the lathe that requires 3 phase was the coolant pump motor. All you really have to do is to make sure that L1 and L2 go to the right terminals on the power contactor (likely checking from the disconnect).

Not sure what you're asking for on those drawings. The notes are mostly of no consequence, just detailing past changes in cryptic text. I can give you equally faded images in scans in a higher resolution - those I can't read at all for the low resolution. Just PM me a real email address that can handle 8mb files (in TIFF).

Maybe put up some pictures of the bodged wiring and maybe where it goes. I've found what appears to be "loose wiring" that was actually just wires added as test points to difficult to access areas and stubbed out rather than removed when done.
 
The notes are mostly of no consequence, just detailing past changes in cryptic text.

On this print (#20122), the notes are for setting voltages. Some of the words and voltage values are faded at the far right of the page. Below is what I can make out, written like the short lines on the drawing. The _____ indicates what I can not decifer. Perhaps someone can fill in the blanks.

PLACE A D.C. VOLTMETER
ACROSS GA2+ AND S1-
SET ALL CONTROLS TO
ZERO
SET SPINDLE SPEED
CONTROL KNOB HALFWAY
BETWEEN MIN & MAX
PLACE SPINDLE LEVER IN
"ON" POSITION
ROTATE MIN. VOLTAGE
POT. UNTIL VOLTMETER
READS 98 VOLTS
RAISE VOLTAGE TO _______
WITH COMPENSATION ____
RAISE VOLTAGE TO ________
WITH MAX. VOLTAGE POT
ADJUST SPINDLE SPEED
TO APPROX 75 RPM
LOAD SPINDLE
IF SPINDLE SPEED ________
CREASES RAISE ___________
SPEED INCREASES ________
COMPENSATION
TURN SPINDLE SPEED
CONTROL TO MAX
RAISE MAX. SPEED CON-
TROL UNTIL MAX SPEED
IS INDICATED BY _______
TACHOMETER
IF SPINDLE _______
SPEED WHEN RPM
HIGH, REDUCE ARM. VOLT-
AGE SLIGHTLY WITH _____
VOLTAGE POT. AND ______
AGAIN TO 24_____________
WITH MIN VOLTAGE
POTENTIOMETER


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Sorry, I didn't realize those pics were such poor resolution. The files that Monarch sent were 311k and 250k .tiff files. I had to convert them to something else in order to view and print them.

I'll try and get some pics of the wiring. Unfortunately, the lathe is tucked between the end of another lathe, a heavy workbench 2 loaded tool carts, and a wall, so it's a little hard to get to. And the drawer can only be pulled out about 8". The 3 transformers (TR3662, TR8224, TR8225) near the front edge have been changed (they have date codes of 1976,1977,1978). The dangling wires appear to be the extra, unused wires for either the input or output voltage of those 3 transformers

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Thermite, just don't post an image of my messy shop I sent you !! LOL

I think Donnie has a written menu for those adjustment values Or maybe one of the other WIAD gurus?

Ad Thermite mentioned: a site search using several different parameters will net you plenty of reading..

Now, to go out and try to find a few square feet of my shop floor.. :-)

DualValve
 
I tried reducing the size of the image to something practical but it made the image unreadable. I've got better setup, PM me for images.

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Clearing space to work in my shop WAS much easier before all this "terrorist" bullshit deprived even a grandfathered "blaster" of easy access to store-bought explosives.

My kids don't believe me when I tell them stories of being able to buy ditching dynamite (actually a DuPond binary) and caps when I was 11 (about 50 years ago) - just walk over to the general store (town of maybe 200?) and buy it. Got cautioned not to carry the caps and binary in the same bag - total safety lecture.

But I'd need something even less brisant to clear my shop. A good solid shove would get something out, or maybe I should sell the crap I've promised I'd get rid of like the spare air compressor, sandblast cabinet, etc. and finish all the half-done projects...
 
Yup true story, but the guys at the hardware store made sure I read "Blasting around the Farm" the companion book.... but that was only 46 years ago and I was maybe 15 years old.
 
Back 'on topic' : Mollassesbros:: have you had time to work on the lathe's drive-power system? Any success with powering it up?

DualValve
 
I tried reducing the size of the image to something practical but it made the image unreadable. I've got better setup, PM me for images.


Thanks. That pic had all the missing words I needed.

Back 'on topic' : Mollassesbros:: have you had time to work on the lathe's drive-power system? Any success with powering it up?

DualValve

Unfortunately, not yet. But I did get some pics. A little hard to tell, but I think a lot of the wires laying around are the extra taps off of the transformers. There are some new wire labels and original wire labels. It looks like the wires are attached in all correct places, but I want to make sure, so I started to make some drawings of my own to document what "new" wire color/label corresponds with the original, and where that goes on the terminal strip on the back of the drawer.

I'm getting some stuff done and out of the shop to make room for bringing the lathe out away from the wall where I can work on it comfortably. It is on skates now, but no room to roll.
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Get the numbers off the tops of the transformers that L1 and L2 are connected to in the second photo and we can get the machine voltage (most likely, anyway). Going straight by color I'd say 220 (the black L1 line to the transformer says 220 on print 19299)
 
The top transformer has TR 3662 stenciled in white paint on the top, but no visible data plate. I can barely see the other 2 data plates for the middle and bottom transformers but was able to get pics. Shows input voltage:400/500 for both.
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This is what I have so far for the where the new colored wires go so I can compare with the monarch diagram
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Another option would be to replace the transformers. I have the guts from a 220V WIAD machine, including all the transformers... I'd take $50 for everything, just to clear up the space. If I had to pack and ship that would be another $50 for the labor, crating, etc., and you would have to pay shipping on top of that, but if you can arrange a pick-up in Salinas, CA it's a bargain.
 
Another option would be to replace the transformers. I have the guts from a 220V WIAD machine, including all the transformers...

220 volt conversion sounds like a great idea. Thank you, I will send you a PM

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Looks like you're going to want to feed the lathe 440. You can do this from a 220 supply by putting in a 1:2 transformer.

Yes, a step up transformer was the first option we considered. Downside of that is their large size, and to some degree, their cost due to the current needed. I think I figured a 13 or 15KVA transformer would work, could be wrong though on that. That's why I was considering doing the conversion that is in the link in my first post. https://www.practicalmachinist...ad-voltage-conversions-176641/. A small (500VA) transformer to run the necessary 460V components, and the 220 line voltage would take care of heavy current stuff

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