Reviving a '56 EE
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    Default Reviving a '56 EE

    Hey everybody,
    Long time lurker, first time poster. Gotta say thanks to all the great people on sharing their knowledge about keeping these machines running. I have gathered a lot of info here in hopes of bringing back to life a '56 EE (#42092) that my long time employer/friend owns. He purchased it in the mid '80s and has never had it running because it was wired for 460 3ph. Every shop building he has been in only had 230 3ph.

    He has had several people over the years, including machine installation electricians, look at the lathe to determine if it can run on 230, but no body could confidently say "yes". He got answers like:
    "You gotta buy all the transformers and tubes from Monarch to make it run".
    "Just plug it in to 230, it should work"
    "Get a step up transformer" and..
    "Gut it and put in a VFD"

    He is now looking at retirement and would like to bring the lathe home and use it in the garage with 230 single phase. After searching PM and coming across peterh5322 post: Simple, Inexpensive "Universal" WiaD Voltage Conversions, it seems like we may be able to finally get it running again. However, someone has been into the wiring already and there are some suspicious connections and loose, uncapped wires dangling around inside the WiaD compartment.

    So first order of business was to get the wiring diagrams from Monarch. After calling and talking with Terrie Schwaiger ([email protected]), she was kind enough to email over. I went to my local copy center and printed them out on 11x17, but now realize with my failing eyes, I'm going to have to go bigger. There is also some text in the "NOTES" area that has faded and I cannot make out.

    I don't want to guess what it says, so I was hoping maybe someone on here can fill in the missing info. Also, does anyone else have prints that look like this, where it looks like the images have been stretched? I can't believe the original print had ovals where it looks like it should be circle. Thanks in advance!

    Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

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    A WiaD can and does operate on single phase, the only native part of the lathe that requires 3 phase was the coolant pump motor. All you really have to do is to make sure that L1 and L2 go to the right terminals on the power contactor (likely checking from the disconnect).

    Not sure what you're asking for on those drawings. The notes are mostly of no consequence, just detailing past changes in cryptic text. I can give you equally faded images in scans in a higher resolution - those I can't read at all for the low resolution. Just PM me a real email address that can handle 8mb files (in TIFF).

    Maybe put up some pictures of the bodged wiring and maybe where it goes. I've found what appears to be "loose wiring" that was actually just wires added as test points to difficult to access areas and stubbed out rather than removed when done.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rke[pler View Post
    The notes are mostly of no consequence, just detailing past changes in cryptic text.
    On this print (#20122), the notes are for setting voltages. Some of the words and voltage values are faded at the far right of the page. Below is what I can make out, written like the short lines on the drawing. The _____ indicates what I can not decifer. Perhaps someone can fill in the blanks.

    PLACE A D.C. VOLTMETER
    ACROSS GA2+ AND S1-
    SET ALL CONTROLS TO
    ZERO
    SET SPINDLE SPEED
    CONTROL KNOB HALFWAY
    BETWEEN MIN & MAX
    PLACE SPINDLE LEVER IN
    "ON" POSITION
    ROTATE MIN. VOLTAGE
    POT. UNTIL VOLTMETER
    READS 98 VOLTS
    RAISE VOLTAGE TO _______
    WITH COMPENSATION ____
    RAISE VOLTAGE TO ________
    WITH MAX. VOLTAGE POT
    ADJUST SPINDLE SPEED
    TO APPROX 75 RPM
    LOAD SPINDLE
    IF SPINDLE SPEED ________
    CREASES RAISE ___________
    SPEED INCREASES ________
    COMPENSATION
    TURN SPINDLE SPEED
    CONTROL TO MAX
    RAISE MAX. SPEED CON-
    TROL UNTIL MAX SPEED
    IS INDICATED BY _______
    TACHOMETER
    IF SPINDLE _______
    SPEED WHEN RPM
    HIGH, REDUCE ARM. VOLT-
    AGE SLIGHTLY WITH _____
    VOLTAGE POT. AND ______
    AGAIN TO 24_____________
    WITH MIN VOLTAGE
    POTENTIOMETER


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    Sorry, I didn't realize those pics were such poor resolution. The files that Monarch sent were 311k and 250k .tiff files. I had to convert them to something else in order to view and print them.

    I'll try and get some pics of the wiring. Unfortunately, the lathe is tucked between the end of another lathe, a heavy workbench 2 loaded tool carts, and a wall, so it's a little hard to get to. And the drawer can only be pulled out about 8". The 3 transformers (TR3662, TR8224, TR8225) near the front edge have been changed (they have date codes of 1976,1977,1978). The dangling wires appear to be the extra, unused wires for either the input or output voltage of those 3 transformers

    Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

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    Quote Originally Posted by molassesbros View Post
    Sorry, I didn't realize those pics were such poor resolution. The files that Monarch sent were 311k and 250k .tiff files. I had to convert them to something else in order to view and print them.

    I'll try and get some pics of the wiring. Unfortunately, the lathe is tucked between the end of another lathe, a heavy workbench 2 loaded tool carts, and a wall, so it's a little hard to get to. And the drawer can only be pulled out about 8". The 3 transformers (TR3662, TR8224, TR8225) near the front edge have been changed (they have date codes of 1976,1977,1978). The dangling wires appear to be the extra, unused wires for either the input or output voltage of those 3 transformers

    Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk
    All the info you need is on PM as well as the drawing. This is easy, not hard.

    Main thing you need to do is move some shit.

    "drawer can only be pulled out about 8" won't even get you sympathy. No one here can move what's under YOUR roof by use of our 'puter keyboards.

    Get yourself clear to actually see and foto watcha HAVE, share it, cleanly, (selfie-stick can put a camera where yer head don't FIT) and have the access needed to actually APPLY information fed back.

    THEN you are ready to proceed.

    Not meaning to be harsh, but d'you have the least idea how messy some of OUR shops are? Or how useless "wishing otherwise" has proven to be?


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    Thermite, just don't post an image of my messy shop I sent you !! LOL

    I think Donnie has a written menu for those adjustment values Or maybe one of the other WIAD gurus?

    Ad Thermite mentioned: a site search using several different parameters will net you plenty of reading..

    Now, to go out and try to find a few square feet of my shop floor.. :-)

    DualValve

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    Quote Originally Posted by DualValve View Post
    Thermite, just don't post an image of my messy shop I sent you !! LOL
    ...
    Now, to go out and try to find a few square feet of my shop floor.. :-)
    Clearing space to work in my shop WAS much easier before all this "terrorist" bullshit deprived even a grandfathered "blaster" of easy access to store-bought explosives.

    Essayons!

    Last edited by thermite; 01-18-2020 at 06:29 PM.

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    I tried reducing the size of the image to something practical but it made the image unreadable. I've got better setup, PM me for images.

    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 10ee_notes.jpg  

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    Quote Originally Posted by thermite View Post
    Clearing space to work in my shop WAS much easier before all this "terrorist" bullshit deprived even a grandfathered "blaster" of easy access to store-bought explosives.
    My kids don't believe me when I tell them stories of being able to buy ditching dynamite (actually a DuPond binary) and caps when I was 11 (about 50 years ago) - just walk over to the general store (town of maybe 200?) and buy it. Got cautioned not to carry the caps and binary in the same bag - total safety lecture.

    But I'd need something even less brisant to clear my shop. A good solid shove would get something out, or maybe I should sell the crap I've promised I'd get rid of like the spare air compressor, sandblast cabinet, etc. and finish all the half-done projects...

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    Quote Originally Posted by rke[pler View Post
    Got cautioned not to carry the caps and binary in the same bag - total safety lecture.
    LOL! Standard Combat Engineer fiddle. The caps were not meant to even be on the same truck. Mortar, artillery, other rude-bugger neighbours hazards.

    So caps for several tons of our standard rations, typically 3 tons, carried on truck "A" went into the cab of truck "B". Caps for several tons of 'plosives on truck "B" went into the cab of truck "A".

    And the safety regulations were served.. given they were not really our greatest pucker-factor-factor, mil-grade "safety" explosives being uncommonly resistant to detonation when it wasn't meant to be ... for the obvious necessity-driven reasons.



    NB: The Wehrmacht "pioneer" - not as safely served off a struggling economy - had a much nicer, rather lovingly crafted wooden cap box than the ugly utilitarian ones the USACE issued. So Dad brought a couple home from soldaten who were beyond further need of them. Or anything else, actually.

    ..promised I'd get rid of like the spare air compressor, sandblast cabinet, etc.
    Aye, standard distance and freight PM challenge. I'll be buyng both of those locally.
    and finish all the half-done projects...
    Now THERE at least is a "standard lie" worthy of a bleedin' monument.

    But I can TOP it nonetheless.

    "I BELIEVE YOU!"

    Top that lie if you dare!


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    Quote Originally Posted by thermite View Post

    Top that lie if you dare!

    I don't have any half done projects!

    topped it ((-;

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    Yup true story, but the guys at the hardware store made sure I read "Blasting around the Farm" the companion book.... but that was only 46 years ago and I was maybe 15 years old.

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    Back 'on topic' : Mollassesbros:: have you had time to work on the lathe's drive-power system? Any success with powering it up?

    DualValve

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    Quote Originally Posted by rke[pler View Post
    I tried reducing the size of the image to something practical but it made the image unreadable. I've got better setup, PM me for images.

    Thanks. That pic had all the missing words I needed.

    Quote Originally Posted by DualValve View Post
    Back 'on topic' : Mollassesbros:: have you had time to work on the lathe's drive-power system? Any success with powering it up?

    DualValve
    Unfortunately, not yet. But I did get some pics. A little hard to tell, but I think a lot of the wires laying around are the extra taps off of the transformers. There are some new wire labels and original wire labels. It looks like the wires are attached in all correct places, but I want to make sure, so I started to make some drawings of my own to document what "new" wire color/label corresponds with the original, and where that goes on the terminal strip on the back of the drawer.

    I'm getting some stuff done and out of the shop to make room for bringing the lathe out away from the wall where I can work on it comfortably. It is on skates now, but no room to roll.

    Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

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    Get the numbers off the tops of the transformers that L1 and L2 are connected to in the second photo and we can get the machine voltage (most likely, anyway). Going straight by color I'd say 220 (the black L1 line to the transformer says 220 on print 19299)

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    The top transformer has TR 3662 stenciled in white paint on the top, but no visible data plate. I can barely see the other 2 data plates for the middle and bottom transformers but was able to get pics. Shows input voltage:400/500 for both.


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    This is what I have so far for the where the new colored wires go so I can compare with the monarch diagram

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    Looks like you're going to want to feed the lathe 440. You can do this from a 220 supply by putting in a 1:2 transformer. Since 1:2 transformers in high current applications are kind of rare it's likely that you'll want to find a 2:1 power transformer make for 440:220 use and run it backwards. Here's a paper describing the issues around that:

    http://apps.geindustrial.com/publibr...mer2%7Cgeneric

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    Another option would be to replace the transformers. I have the guts from a 220V WIAD machine, including all the transformers... I'd take $50 for everything, just to clear up the space. If I had to pack and ship that would be another $50 for the labor, crating, etc., and you would have to pay shipping on top of that, but if you can arrange a pick-up in Salinas, CA it's a bargain.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rimcanyon View Post
    Another option would be to replace the transformers. I have the guts from a 220V WIAD machine, including all the transformers...
    220 volt conversion sounds like a great idea. Thank you, I will send you a PM

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