running 10ee on 120v single phase for basic testing?

Brandenberger · Dec 5, 2020

Hi,

I have a 10ee currently in a garage without 3phase or even 240v single phase.
However I do have some 120-to-240 transformers (500VA rated).

Of course this isn't anywhere enough to really run a 10ee at high speed or do anything
that draws real current. But is it enough to get the spindle running and check
basic electrical functions?

The machine was running when I picked it up, so I'm not too concerned about it.

There are also some 10ee's around from time to time that the seller says "I have no way to power this" and it would be nice to have a kit to take along to run the thing.

-Phil

labeeman · Dec 5, 2020

Brandenberger said:
Hi,

I have a 10ee currently in a garage without 3phase or even 240v single phase.
However I do have some 120-to-240 transformers (500VA rated).

Of course this isn't anywhere enough to really run a 10ee at high speed or do anything
that draws real current. But is it enough to get the spindle running and check
basic electrical functions?

The machine was running when I picked it up, so I'm not too concerned about it.

There are also some 10ee's around from time to time that the seller says "I have no way to power this" and it would be nice to have a kit to take along to run the thing.

-Phil

Short answer NOPE

rabler · Dec 5, 2020

Well, a modular could be done through a transformer (except coolant pump). But, you’d need at least 3 KVAfor the transformer, and likely inrush current powering it on would blow a 20A circuit. And you risk messing up a machine that isn’t yours ...

Realistically, no.

m-lud · Dec 5, 2020

The seller would not be likely to allow you to do that.
I would not.
Not seeing it run should be reflected in the price

It' is a good question to ask. It would be nice too verify that it runs.
You may be very well qualified but people dont know you.

Brandenberger · Dec 5, 2020

mllud22 said:
The seller would not be likely to allow you to do that.
I would not.
Not seeing it run should be reflected in the price

It' is a good question to ask. It would be nice too verify that it runs.
You may be very well qualified but people dont know you.

Agreed in principle with peoples' comments here.

I tend to see 10ee's that people price as if it runs, but then say it can't be run in situ.

Even for my own machine, I would think a 240v single phase 500w power supply would either blow
a fuse in the step up transformer, or possibly be enough to start the motor. The big thyristors in my
machine were replaced with the solid state equivalents (Scissio Controls, sold by Monarch) so
perhaps the "static" power draw on my machine would be fairly modest. I'm not sure with this drive
design whether inrush is huge (like a 3ph motor being switched on) or much more gradual (like a VFD).

Maybe I'll measure the inrush and static power draw on my machine once I wire up a 240v 30A circuit,
just to satisfy my curiosity.

-Phil

dalmatiangirl61 · Dec 5, 2020

Brandenberger said:
There are also some 10ee's around from time to time that the seller says "I have no way to power this" and it would be nice to have a kit to take along to run the thing.

The proper name for that kit is "3 phase generator in the back of a pickup truck".

Cal Haines · Dec 5, 2020

Brandenberger said:
Hi,

I have a 10ee currently in a garage without 3phase or even 240v single phase.
However I do have some 120-to-240 transformers (500VA rated).

Of course this isn't anywhere enough to really run a 10ee at high speed or do anything
that draws real current. But is it enough to get the spindle running and check
basic electrical functions?

The machine was running when I picked it up, so I'm not too concerned about it.

There are also some 10ee's around from time to time that the seller says "I have no way to power this" and it would be nice to have a kit to take along to run the thing.

-Phil

If it's a motor/generator machine, you could run the spindle motor a one speed, with full power and check out most of the DC control panel using a pair of bridge rectifiers (that's assuming that we're not talking about an inline exciter machine with a 230VDC spindle motor field). A works in a drawer (WiaD) machine could probably also be checked out that way, but I would have to have a look at the schematics to be sure. On a modular machine, you could check the spindle motor, but I'm not sure what else.

What type of drive are we talking about?

Cal

Don's Engine · Dec 5, 2020

Buy a 10 HP Huanyang VFD and pre set your low and high settings to 60HZ. Wire a 30 Amp extension to it and carry along a few different 50 amp male plug ends. Everyone has a 200V dryer outlet in their home. Use whatever end you need and then wire the MG motor directly to the VFD. The capacitors in the VFD will take care of the inrush as well as the 3 phase conversion. Ask me how I know. tested half a dozen machines this month this way.

9100 · Dec 7, 2020

Modulars run on single phase. All you need is a transformer from 120 to 240 and a good enough line. Turn the speed control down to minimum and after starting, bring it up gradually. So much for starting surge.

Bill

Terrain2015 · Apr 28, 2021

Don's Engine said:
Buy a 10 HP Huanyang VFD and pre set your low and high settings to 60HZ. Wire a 30 Amp extension to it and carry along a few different 50 amp male plug ends. Everyone has a 200V dryer outlet in their home. Use whatever end you need and then wire the MG motor directly to the VFD. The capacitors in the VFD will take care of the inrush as well as the 3 phase conversion. Ask me how I know. tested half a dozen machines this month this way.

I have been watching your video on youtube and i am impressed. so you mean to tell me i can install a VFD straight to my current reliance DC motor and it will run it just fine?
if i can get rid of this pacemaster controller i would stoked!!!

rke[pler · Apr 28, 2021

Terrain2015 said:
I have been watching your video on youtube and i am impressed. so you mean to tell me i can install a VFD straight to my current reliance DC motor and it will run it just fine?
if i can get rid of this pacemaster controller i would stoked!!!

No. You use the VFD to generate 3 phase for the 10EE drive. There are VFDs that won't be happy with using an external switch to start the motor.

All in all it'd be safer for the OP to make an extension cord to reach a dryer outlet and connect the hot leads to the 10EE drive. Both the WiaD and Modular drives can be run on single phase. Both will take most of a 20A feed just to start.

But your drive is (I believe) a regenerative drive from the 70's, and if so it requires a good 3 phase source. I'm not sure that the VFD will work unless you clean up the output with an idler motor or something (using the induction to smooth the waveform). Best thing would be to get a Phase Perfect or similar.

Terrain2015 · Apr 28, 2021

rke[pler said:
No. You use the VFD to generate 3 phase for the 10EE drive. There are VFDs that won't be happy with using an external switch to start the motor.

All in all it'd be safer for the OP to make an extension cord to reach a dryer outlet and connect the hot leads to the 10EE drive. Both the WiaD and Modular drives can be run on single phase. Both will take most of a 20A feed just to start.

But your drive is (I believe) a regenerative drive from the 70's, and if so it requires a good 3 phase source. I'm not sure that the VFD will work unless you clean up the output with an idler motor or something (using the induction to smooth the waveform). Best thing would be to get a Phase Perfect or similar.

yeah i hadnt finished watching his video before i replied.
in the video it looks to be the original DC motor, but i was fooled because it was an AC motor that he put in the DC motor casing in disguise!

i have a write up on my 10EE that ive been updating on. just havent been making much progress on it and getting close to gutting it and starting over.
it sucks because it may be a super simple fix, but i cant figure out where it is.

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