Sabina DC drive

My partner and I purchased 7 Monarch EE lathes recently. This is the worst of the lot. However this machine is in very good condition with very little wear on the ways or anywhere else.
This is how it looked upon delivery, cosmoline on ways and ect, its in place now cleaned and running. former owner USAF.
http://s170.photobucket.com/albums/u265/donsmonarch10ee/?action=view&current=sabinadcdrive001.jpg

I opened this machine to pull parts for another and discovered it has a Sabina drive.
Sabina drives are considered by some to be the best aftermarket DC drives ever available for the EE. All critical functions are maintained, and these were very expensive.
As can be seen, this Sabina solid state system completely replaced the Monarch Modular drive components, but, retains the original motor and back gear.
As many know, the drive plays a major part of why the Monarch EE is one of, if not the best tool room super precision lathes ever built. That said here are photos of the drive.

Left hand door.
http://s170.photobucket.com/albums/u265/donsmonarch10ee/?action=view&current=sabinadcdrive016.jpg

Right hand door.
http://s170.photobucket.com/albums/u265/donsmonarch10ee/?action=view&current=sabinadcdrive009.jpg

I did get close ups of the components, if interested in that say so.

Well, if you are wondering what the plastic and debris is at the bottom in the left hand door, its possum poo. The possum knew this machine had a Sabina drive before I did, the possum thought it was time to move out when I opened the door and was last seen heading for the garage next door.

Donie
I'll sent you a PM.

Hal

Very interesting Don,

It looks like a similar design to the Fincor drive, a composite field and armature section. I see they use the Monarch resistors for braking, these would dissipate more heat than the resistors in the Fincor drive. It appears to be a bit more spread out and older technology( fewer SMT boards)

Are all the lathes re-powered?

Steve

Donie, over 11 tons of 10EEs is an impressive aquisition! Are you still grinning?

The electronics are older, don't know when these drives were built. It's amazing how complex it appears, lots of places to emit smoke. Thyratrons and motor generators certainly have their negatives but someone must have really hated them to go this far to build and find a market for such a replacement drive.

Is it open loop or did it use a feedback tach? Sorry, but know nothing about this drive, just curious.

It must have been produced when having a productive 10EE really mattered in industry. Now that most 10EE go for chump change selling such an expensive drive at a profit would seem to be the impossible dream. Would love to see the service manual for it.

I do not think those are Monarch resistors, there are 3 of them. A little closer shot before I removed the possum poo!
http://s170.photobucket.com/albums/u265/donsmonarch10ee/?action=view&current=sabinadcdrive023.jpg

I think this one may be the only one repowered. But I havnt had time to deal with them all. Some of the others look a little better, but seem to have more wear. 3 are I/M, 2 appear to be outstanding condition and one very good, that one is missing tubes, module and a filiment transformer. I got into this 61 to rob parts, found the Sabina drive and discovered the good condition of the machine, really good for such an old one.
All of these went with other machines and sheet metal equipment we were more after. One of other machines is a K&T Milwaulkee #2K plain Horizontal mill with a wide range dividing head that is in the best condition I have ever seen. I will get some photos of that when I can.
We are building new kitchens in several schools and a couple of colleges, so, time is at a premium right now. Moving this stuff was pretty hard and fast.

Dave, I contacted Sabina in the early 90s about these drives, they started at around $4500 back then and they wanted the machine shipped to them.
I would suspect that the Sabina drive is not nearly as durable as the original module drive in good condition.
I will attempt to get a service manual if possible.
You are right, EEs are not worth much anymore, and the way it worked out they were nearly free except for the effort of moving and storing them.

DaveE907 said:

Donie, over 11 tons of 10EEs is an impressive aquisition! Are you still grinning?

The electronics are older, don't know when these drives were built. It's amazing how complex it appears, lots of places to emit smoke. Thyratrons and motor generators certainly have their negatives but someone must have really hated them to go this far to build and find a market for such a replacement drive.

Is it open loop or did it use a feedback tach? Sorry, but know nothing about this drive, just curious.

It must have been produced when having a productive 10EE really mattered in industry. Now that most 10EE go for chump change selling such an expensive drive at a profit would seem to be the impossible dream. Would love to see the service manual for it.

Click to expand...

Dave,

I can say a few very nice aspects of a solid state drive is no noise and no wait to get the machine running. No morning sickness either. As far as the drive development and buyers it amazes me that companies like Delco went the Fincor route or that the USAF choose Sabina. Both these organizations should have had people that knew the MG and tube drives very well. Now about that magic smoke; I knock on phenolic that it stays right where it is.

Don,

You are correct the resistors are different, still much more surface area than in my drive.

Steve

I have seen several Fincor drives in Hanford area machines, they were in jic cabinets with 3 line meters.
Several years ago, the FBI was calling for bids on a complete rebuild of an EE including the drive. The drive was to be contained completely in the base of the machine. I dont know if Fincor offered that.
I would suppose that these companies were beating Monarch price wise on drive replacements.
I think this 61 EE was rebuilt, all the lead screws are new and bed ect reground. The drive motor is a much later Louis Allis.
I appears this Sabina drive was never used and the lathe placed in storage. The thread/feed gear box A-B knob function has a problem, when in "A" there seems to be a bind and the lead screw or feed rod will not rotate.
This drive is smooth and silent.

donie said:

My partner and I purchased 7 Monarch EE lathes recently. ...

Click to expand...

Wow!

What are you going to do with 9 10EEs? Or are you taking machine tool hoarding to a whole new level...?

Cal

Sabina Drives

Donie,

Back in the late 70's early 80's I used specify and help install several of the Sabina drives built back then. Some of the smaller ones were 3 to 10 hp drives and larger ones to power up 150 hp DC motors. The smaller drives were two motor drives, one master, one slave, both DC. We were able to set specified ratio between the two and vary rpm's of the two at the same time. The days before PLC's.
I don't know if Sabina is still around today or not. I no longer have any of the schematics or other information pertaining to them.
Sabani built some nice reliable equipment back then, was much cheaper than Reliance drives were back then.

Ken

When I saw the title of this post I imagined it had something to do with the old Belgian airline, SABENA (Such A Bad Experience, Never Again).

While it's not hard to envy a fellow that just picked seven "nearly free" 10EEs, I must say that I am VERY glad that they fell into the hands of a Monarch enthusiast. It would be tragic if they quietly went to the scrapper or, even worse, some sleazy dealer. Keep us posted on what happens with these machines!

Sabina is still around, will try to get a manual for this drive. The other machines will get a careful work down as time permits.

Donie - what is the statute of limitations for responding to a post?
Suspect I am up against it...

Have just landed a Sabina equipped 10EE and thought I would fire this hail marry.
Trying to locate manual/ experience from anyone that has one up and running.
(Mine was running off 230V RPC up converted to ~460VAC when I bought it.)
Trying to determine if it will run on ~240V RPC decently or if it must have 460V.
Where your thread left off - (more than a decade ago) - you were in search of the manual.
Any luck?
Thanks
-CM

CM.
You might try to ping Donnie over on the gunsmithing forum.
He is on there some of the time.
He's not on this forum very much , it's our loss. He has a lot to offer.

Hal

Hal - thanks for firing a response on my reprise of this ancient thread.
Mighty good of you.
Assume you mean PM's gunsmithing section?
His mailbox is full - and I'm not sure how else I might - but I will keep an eye out and see if I find him on any of the discussion threads there.
Best,
-CM

This thing again,
I will start off with a quote from the late Carla. She described being unsuccessful stabilizing the top speed, and after not much time the one described above began to have problems. The Sabina drive is another failure. Too many cheap components in a high heat situation simple as that.
One only has to compare the factory 1985 and solid state drives large circuit boards with large industrial grade components to the wimpy transistor radio grade circuit boards on the Sabina drive to see, it is not going to last, and they dont. That company happened to win some gov bids and put their wimp drive out to make a buck.
The reality that many here avoid is, the is no, nor ever has been a reasonable replacement for the NG, WIAD, Module, and regenerative direct current drives. Sabina could not do it, the misguided whatevers stacked parker ripple fucker, will not work!
The factory now uses a custom 3phase VFD, the home shop guys best bet is a single phase VFD and motor replacement.
And there is this, I know many here have great electrical knowledge, but obviously lack experience actually running the machines, in particular the module drive. I lack the electrical theory, but have the in the field experience.
Oddly as an operator for 20yrs of module drive machines I can fix them quickly, and prevent them from breaking down because years ago the tech from Monarch helped us here on the forum "remember him"? I certainly do, and remember every word he said, a very few correct steps willget you in the right direction because I need to, I have considerable investment in these machines.
Look back and laugh at the $500 prices for machines out of defense reserve.
If I had to, I would piece a missing module drive together to replace the Sabina dud.

Think about it this way, you got the best machine that could be made at the time, its like an exotic car, there is a price to be paid in maintenance......

Doni - thanks for insights/experience.

I'm a fan of classic exotic cars... but I would be the first to put a modern power plant in one.
Plan with this one is to get it back on its feet with as little investment as possible out of the gate - and see how the drive holds up.
It's run in someone else's garage for 20+ years - though with a lot less demand on it than a professional shop - so perhaps it will get the job done for me as is.

If it fails, I would likely have a hard look at 5-7.5 HP/VFD & backgear as suggested.
Should anyone else come along on this thread - couple other data points learned along the way that may be of interest:

- Guys at Sabina say they only made a handful of the 460V - but literally only a handful.
- The DC motors were all rewound for these machines when Sabina did the conversion.
- They will no longer run on 180VDC according to Sabina (now require ~ 2x that due to rewind).
- Sabina has the blueprints and information still on file for all the machines they converted.

Thanks for taking the time to respond.
Much appreciated.
-CM

My experience is limited to one machine, and a possum lived in there.
I have seen a few of the Sabina conversions, and the has been a few chime in here over the years that had success with the drive.
As I remember the machine in this thread was 460volt, and their most complete function wise. The drive had a field control module labeled as such. The main control box had four trim pots that were touchy in adjustment like Carla complained about.
The Monarch ee drive allows faster thread cutting when the halfnuts need to be left engaged such as for metric threads, and decimal leads, or for the closest tolerance threading of any type.
And right there the problems with the aftermarket drives show up with the rapid reversing needed to take advantage of the machine to save time, and make money.
If one can slow down some the Sabina drive could be good enough. When I got the one in this thread going, it would shut down when flipped from forward to reverse multiple time such as when threading, where the factory drive is designed to do that. If one does not need to do that, then the drive would be OK.

This may be helpful to you and perhaps others, the video shows some basic functions of the factory drive, in this case the module drive.
Monarch 10 ee lathe Module drive warm up! - YouTube

The late Carla called it right years ago, the Sabina drives are junk. They were garbage then, and old garbage now, This is my thread, I will tell it like it is, no frosting or sprinkles.
Now the real experts will take this thread from here, and I will never waste one more second on this proven failure, because I only move forward to crush any competition, its the American thing to do.