Series 61, Removing a Shift Fork from Headstock
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  1. #1
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    Default Series 61, Removing a Shift Fork from Headstock

    Looking to address headstock later, but discovered an issue, and maybe I can gather information and parts.

    One of the shift forks in headstock appears to be on splines on a tube. I think the splines are wore considerable, but don't have it apart to know. However upper ark of fork can move about a 1/4" while I hold its driving tube still.

    Another shaft for a different fork passes through the tube in question. Anyway it appears splined, not keyed.

    The fork in question I have circled in red:

    11.jpg

    From the parts book I have circled the fork and tube, plus you can follow line "D":

    10.jpg

    Parts list in interested:

    12.jpg

    The result of the loose splines, besides being sloppy, is that I am not fully engaging the slider to either direction. I have gone through lever adjustments already. Removing the slop in splines will allow full engagement in both directions. As it is now, these two pics show slider not fully engaged in both directions:

    7.jpg 8.jpg

    I was hoping to not rip the entire headstock apart. My question is, has anyone ever slipped this particular fork out without removing the gear shafts ?

    If possible, I'd have to finesse the internal shaft out, plus the tube. I'm just not sure if its possible, maybe hidden set screws or retainers. . . Anyone dealt with this ?

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    I can't answer the installation question but there was a guy parting out a 61 in a thread a few pages deep. He still had those parts I believe. I have 2 very chewed up gears (I believe that same cluster that you are working on) I was going to call him about those.

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    I had decided to see if I could indeed get the splined tube and fork out. In examining before hand I noticed something. The splines were sticking out of fork, opposite the shift lever side. No room what so ever to maneuver there, I could only bearing catch a peak of that. :

    19.jpg

    Then pulling shift levers off, I saw the tube was not fully through the lever adjustment collar. It looked to me like I could move the tube about 5/16", both into the collar, and into the fork.:

    20.jpg

    I was hoping it would tighten up if I did. But I wanted to fully remove tube first to examine it.

    Levers and adjusters out of the way. I pull both packing nuts, for shaft and tube. But I didn't touch the packing:

    21.jpg

    The end thrust of tube is controled by shift lever on one side, and a collar inside the head stock for the other side. This I could access and got it loose:

    22.jpg

    Over the next several hours I attempted to get the tube out. I got it moved about 3/4 of an inch, and will note moving it the first 5/16" that the fork was tight.

    It was very slow going as I was trying not to destroy parts, including fork and shoes, but the tube would not simply slide out out, and I could not directly tap on it. Once I got it moved about 3/4" it just seemed like I was not making any more progress, so gave up for the night.

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    Coming back to it today, I decided not to remove tube for now. Instead I tapped the tube back in to where it is flush with both adjusting collar and the outside edge of fork. In this position fork is tight. You can see it flush with adjusting collar here:

    23.jpg

    I installed packing nuts. I dont think packing is destroyed, but wont know until I have oil in it. I do intend on servicing the head stock later in this build, including new fork shoes, oil system, etc., so maybe I'll dive into it harder then. For now I put in back together.

    Good news. I fully engage both directions now:

    24.jpg 25.jpg

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    Quote Originally Posted by rickseeman View Post
    I can't answer the installation question but there was a guy parting out a 61 in a thread a few pages deep. He still had those parts I believe. I have 2 very chewed up gears (I believe that same cluster that you are working on) I was going to call him about those.
    Yeah, I still have most all the internals for the headstock. At some point soon if someone doesn't want this stuff it will go to the scrapper.

    Mike

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    Quote Originally Posted by mikethomas View Post
    Yeah, I still have most all the internals for the headstock. At some point soon if someone doesn't want this stuff it will go to the scrapper.

    Mike
    I'll be in touch real soon. I'll take that fork, tube, and related pieces, just in case . But I'm working on a list as well. Do you still have apron and qcgb parts ?

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    Quote Originally Posted by texasgunsmith View Post
    I'll be in touch real soon. I'll take that fork, tube, and related pieces, just in case . But I'm working on a list as well. Do you still have apron and qcgb parts ?
    Yes, apron and gear box parts also. Once I get back from Arnfest and as the weather changes I will start scrapping this stuff.

    Mike

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    I'll try to have you a parts list by the either the end of the weekend, or early next week. I'm just about to knock the end cover off the qcgb, and I may pull a little more apart on that a well.

    I hadn't got to the apron yet, but maybe I'll strip it to know. Off the top of my head I'd probably take the pinion gear that run on bed rack. And some stuff for the feed rod connection through apron. But I got to get it stripped to know.

    Paranoia makes me want to take everything . But the packing and shipping with all that weight. . .

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    Quote Originally Posted by texasgunsmith View Post
    I'll try to have you a parts list by the either the end of the weekend, or early next week. I'm just about to knock the end cover off the qcgb, and I may pull a little more apart on that a well.

    I hadn't got to the apron yet, but maybe I'll strip it to know. Off the top of my head I'd probably take the pinion gear that run on bed rack. And some stuff for the feed rod connection through apron. But I got to get it stripped to know.

    Paranoia makes me want to take everything . But the packing and shipping with all that weight. . .
    I would take everything, if the seller can palletize it and drop off at Fastenal.....will likely be cheaper than UPS for smaller packages?

    Kevin

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    Quote Originally Posted by mikethomas View Post
    Yes, apron and gear box parts also. Once I get back from Arnfest and as the weather changes I will start scrapping this stuff.

    Mike
    The list so far would include the fork and tube mentioned above.

    On the qcgb I have a few items. This is inside the right side cover of qcgb. The first being the stub shaft and gear that drives feed rod:

    30.jpg

    Also inside that same cover, there are two bevel gear assemblies for the clutch rods:

    34.jpg

    On top of qcgb is a bevel gear for lead screw reverse:

    33.jpg

    On the apron I'd like a few items. One is the pinion that's engaged to the bed rack.

    Next is the wormwheel, or the gear riding on worm gear.

    And if possible I'd like the entirety of the worm gear assembly, including the little ball bearings and such. The single most important I need is the collar or drive that feed rod slides through, it has two internal keys for feed rod to drive it. That and the driving piece it engages worm gear with. In the pics I circled everything.

    37.jpg 36.jpg

    I'll also take any of the copper lines for any of the lube systems you have easily available, as well as any junction blocks they screw to. If you have the oil pumps for apron, qcgb, or head stock, I'll take those.

    Before you scrap anything, let me know what you have in any of the roller or taper bearings in Timkin. I don't particularly need any that I'm aware of, but I hate to see those go.

    I'll send you a text, or you can text me either way. Thanks.

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    Well, that is pretty long list. But that's ok.

    I am headed out this morning on the long drive to Arnfest. So, I may be out of touch on this board for a week or so. I will have my phone with me and on all the time though. I would like to think that I could fill your complete order but we will see.

    Mike

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    Take your time. The longer you're gone, the longer the list will get !

    I dont know the state of disassembe you have everything. If my list seems daunting, i would prioritize the apron parts, and no hurry on those.

    Some of my other parts i was going to repair anyway, just wanted to have the extras "just in case" lol.

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    I'm back home. I have been reading some of your posts. Did you get some of the parts you need? Anyway, I can now start to dig in to my parts lathe and get you as much of the parts you need as I can. Can you please restate what you need by priority.

    Mike

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    Quote Originally Posted by mikethomas View Post
    I'm back home. I have been reading some of your posts. Did you get some of the parts you need? Anyway, I can now start to dig in to my parts lathe and get you as much of the parts you need as I can. Can you please restate what you need by priority.

    Mike
    I have not bought any parts, but I have made some repairs. Without comparing against your parts, I thought I might need to repair some stuff anyway.

    Priority for me so far would be apron items first: Worm wheel, worm gear, and the pieces associated with worm gear that feed rod goes through. I circled the parts in a pic in post #10. If I can get the pinion gear from apron too, I'll take it, its the gear that runs on bed rack.

    After that, the three bevel gears from qcgb.

    I'm still interested in the other items, but its more about me collecting spares, verse it getting scrapped.

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    I was able to get a number of the parts together. I have the two bevel gears w/shafts, the worm wheel, worm gear and assembly. There is good news and bad news. The good is that I was able to find most of these parts and the gears appear to be in ok shape. The bad is the drive dog in the worm assembly is badly worn.

    If you can send me your cell number that I can text photos to I think that would be best. I would also be keen to FaceTime if you want that way I can show you parts and we can talk at the same time.

    Mike

    Mike

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    Quote Originally Posted by mikethomas View Post
    I was able to get a number of the parts together. I have the two bevel gears w/shafts, the worm wheel, worm gear and assembly. There is good news and bad news. The good is that I was able to find most of these parts and the gears appear to be in ok shape. The bad is the drive dog in the worm assembly is badly worn.

    If you can send me your cell number that I can text photos to I think that would be best. I would also be keen to FaceTime if you want that way I can show you parts and we can talk at the same time.

    Mike

    Mike
    The drive dogs in mine are wore down and look like two razor blades in thickness. Can't believe they turned feed rod without sheering off.

    Excellent thread Cal recently stickied shows a high end repair by nt1953 here:
    Monarch Model 61 Apron Worm Assembley Repairs

    Was thinking I probably need to do similar. I send you a text shortly.


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