carla
Stainless
- Joined
- Mar 12, 2002
- Location
- W. Coast, USA
Hello, all,
I'd just made arrangements to buy a replacement large transformer for our module EE. The EE has been sitting dormant for quite awhile now, as the relatively little bit of turn work going through our little shop has been handled adequately, if not as conveniently, by the larger Monarch.
I'm getting the large transformer cos I just have this 'gut level feeling' about the existing one, having heard a 'beenk' noise from the area of the back of the EE as something in the electricals seemed to malfunction......whatever the malfunction might be seemed to be causing some sort of resonance in that large transformer, or so it would appear......I could be totally mistaken, to be sure.
I'm hoping that I can get a friend of ours, who is an electrical engineer, and works on industrial solid-state gear, to come out and diagnose the EE's problem....I hate to admit it, but I'm afraid of working around those high-voltage points myself, after nearly zapping myself when tinkering-up another tube drive Monarch some years ago. I suppose I've just 'lost my nerve' or some such.
(we have all these friends who are electronics engineering types, who read the schematic for the drive and say......'oh, my, what an antique....so thats how they did that way back then.....look, its dead simple, the way it works' ....and on and on in that vein.....but when I ask them to please, please, check out and diagnose the EE for me, cos I'm the proverbial 'blonde joke' with electronic gear, they shrink back in fear from the voltages/wattages involved......'that kind of power could get you killed.....I'm not going to fool with anything like that, do you think I'm mad?)
Well, alright, so be it.......but it has had me thinking about developing some realistic alternative to the vacuum-tube or other electronic widgetry involved in these machines for some time......and then Donie's recent comment about spending a lot of time and money to get his '80's vintage EE running well, but even then having problems should it be started/stopped too frequently nudged me into thinking a bit more.
It seems to me that, considering the sheer number of EE Monarchs around which have drive problems, and the sheer headache value of the class of problems they develop, that there may be a worth-while opportunity for some small group of investors here.
The idea is this......how about researching the possibility of contracting with some suitable electrical manufacturing firm (is Reliance still in business, and still making motors?) to build up a complete 'refit package' for the EE, consisting of a motor-generator set, a spindle motor (would the motors used with the tube drive work with a MG set, or could they be modified to work?), the pair of large rheostats needed for the MG drive, which could be located remotely with the MG set, the fwd/rev contact assembly, and related small parts.
Now, think about this......there were some large number of MG drive EE machines, which simply ran like 'clock-work', serving well for many years with no intrinsic problems, other than the obvious maintenence issue of replacing the brushes in the motor and MG set after many hours of operation, re-greasing bearings as one does with any motor, and, after many years of operation, having to replace the tips of the 'fwd' contactor.
The relatively very little bit of maintenence the MG drive needs can be done easily by any machinist or plant mechanic, and any electrical issues easily handled by anyone who can do ordinary three-phase machine wiring.
The only 'down-side' to the MG drive EE's was the design error they made, presumably owing to wartime shortages, to use a 3600 rpm MG set. (quite possibly copied from the then-common Lincoln 'Shield-Arc' DC arc welding set, which used a vertically mounted 3600 rpm MG unit for the DC welding power)
The horrid screaming whine sound as they run is identical, and is a serious morale problem for the operator of the machine.
Now, in thinking about a re-fit drive system, its easy enough to envision a MG set designed to run at 1200 or 1800, for a gentle 'whirr' instead of a nasty whine, and to envision an acoustically insulated box, with a suitable quiet box fan for ventilation, to be mounted behind the lathe, or under a bench.
So......assuming the system were to be offered as a 'package' with all the small parts needed for conversion, what might the potential market be like, considering the 'X' thousand EE Monarchs 'in circulation'?
Would a run of, say, 500 or 1000 units be salable over, say, two or three years time?
What price could such a refit system be built for, in those quantities, and who could build the various components needed for it?
What price would the generality of EE users be willing to pay to have an electrically reliable EE, with reasonable assurance of a decade, more or less, of reliable operation of the machine....that is, a 'make the investment once, then you don't have to think about the EE's electricals for many years of service' practical consideration?
(Y'know, it is really and truly amazing that so many EE's are found in poor, sometimes un-repairable, condition just cos the owners got frustrated with their electrical problems and neglected them......compare those to all the geared head Monarchs of the '40's, '50's, and '60's which are still in regular revenue service in so many shops)
cheers
Carla
I'd just made arrangements to buy a replacement large transformer for our module EE. The EE has been sitting dormant for quite awhile now, as the relatively little bit of turn work going through our little shop has been handled adequately, if not as conveniently, by the larger Monarch.
I'm getting the large transformer cos I just have this 'gut level feeling' about the existing one, having heard a 'beenk' noise from the area of the back of the EE as something in the electricals seemed to malfunction......whatever the malfunction might be seemed to be causing some sort of resonance in that large transformer, or so it would appear......I could be totally mistaken, to be sure.
I'm hoping that I can get a friend of ours, who is an electrical engineer, and works on industrial solid-state gear, to come out and diagnose the EE's problem....I hate to admit it, but I'm afraid of working around those high-voltage points myself, after nearly zapping myself when tinkering-up another tube drive Monarch some years ago. I suppose I've just 'lost my nerve' or some such.
(we have all these friends who are electronics engineering types, who read the schematic for the drive and say......'oh, my, what an antique....so thats how they did that way back then.....look, its dead simple, the way it works' ....and on and on in that vein.....but when I ask them to please, please, check out and diagnose the EE for me, cos I'm the proverbial 'blonde joke' with electronic gear, they shrink back in fear from the voltages/wattages involved......'that kind of power could get you killed.....I'm not going to fool with anything like that, do you think I'm mad?)
Well, alright, so be it.......but it has had me thinking about developing some realistic alternative to the vacuum-tube or other electronic widgetry involved in these machines for some time......and then Donie's recent comment about spending a lot of time and money to get his '80's vintage EE running well, but even then having problems should it be started/stopped too frequently nudged me into thinking a bit more.
It seems to me that, considering the sheer number of EE Monarchs around which have drive problems, and the sheer headache value of the class of problems they develop, that there may be a worth-while opportunity for some small group of investors here.
The idea is this......how about researching the possibility of contracting with some suitable electrical manufacturing firm (is Reliance still in business, and still making motors?) to build up a complete 'refit package' for the EE, consisting of a motor-generator set, a spindle motor (would the motors used with the tube drive work with a MG set, or could they be modified to work?), the pair of large rheostats needed for the MG drive, which could be located remotely with the MG set, the fwd/rev contact assembly, and related small parts.
Now, think about this......there were some large number of MG drive EE machines, which simply ran like 'clock-work', serving well for many years with no intrinsic problems, other than the obvious maintenence issue of replacing the brushes in the motor and MG set after many hours of operation, re-greasing bearings as one does with any motor, and, after many years of operation, having to replace the tips of the 'fwd' contactor.
The relatively very little bit of maintenence the MG drive needs can be done easily by any machinist or plant mechanic, and any electrical issues easily handled by anyone who can do ordinary three-phase machine wiring.
The only 'down-side' to the MG drive EE's was the design error they made, presumably owing to wartime shortages, to use a 3600 rpm MG set. (quite possibly copied from the then-common Lincoln 'Shield-Arc' DC arc welding set, which used a vertically mounted 3600 rpm MG unit for the DC welding power)
The horrid screaming whine sound as they run is identical, and is a serious morale problem for the operator of the machine.
Now, in thinking about a re-fit drive system, its easy enough to envision a MG set designed to run at 1200 or 1800, for a gentle 'whirr' instead of a nasty whine, and to envision an acoustically insulated box, with a suitable quiet box fan for ventilation, to be mounted behind the lathe, or under a bench.
So......assuming the system were to be offered as a 'package' with all the small parts needed for conversion, what might the potential market be like, considering the 'X' thousand EE Monarchs 'in circulation'?
Would a run of, say, 500 or 1000 units be salable over, say, two or three years time?
What price could such a refit system be built for, in those quantities, and who could build the various components needed for it?
What price would the generality of EE users be willing to pay to have an electrically reliable EE, with reasonable assurance of a decade, more or less, of reliable operation of the machine....that is, a 'make the investment once, then you don't have to think about the EE's electricals for many years of service' practical consideration?
(Y'know, it is really and truly amazing that so many EE's are found in poor, sometimes un-repairable, condition just cos the owners got frustrated with their electrical problems and neglected them......compare those to all the geared head Monarchs of the '40's, '50's, and '60's which are still in regular revenue service in so many shops)
cheers
Carla